General Category => What Year is my Bike? => Topic started by: henrylr on March 09, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
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Hi all,
I have a 1940s servi-cycle. My uncle bought it new, gave it to my father around 1950 and he gave it to me in 59, when I was 12. I rode it for about 3 years then took the clutch and engine off the frame. I planned to clean and lube everything and replace piston rings. At that time I sanded and spray painted everything with black primer… it still looks good…no rust., but never put it back together
I never got back to it and want to sell it. All parts are original. Crankcase is stamped G1244. The carburetor is a Tillotson MS93E. I have the original Operation and Maintenance manual which is in very good condition and dated 1946. The gas tank has the filler cap in the middle between the frame bars. It doesn't have a kick starter. Does anyone have an idea of year made?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Post a couple of pictures and I'm sure we can help out. Were do you live, as this frequently determines if someone is close enough for pickup?
Rick
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Welcome Henry, I'm the one who gave you directions to our site from the Motor bicycling forum. There is a lot of specialized information and help available here for the Simplex owner and enthusiasts. Rick C.
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Welcome Henry, I'm the one who gave you directions to our site from the Motor bicycling forum.
Thanks Rick C. I will take some pics of the bike soon. Here are pics of the manual, dated 1946, It's in great condition except for the shrunken plastic binding. It cannot be opened without potential damage to pages. I'm planning to carefully remove the old comb binding and replace it with new, same color, comb binding. Any downsides to doing that? This is a question to all members.
Thanks,
henrylr
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Henry, I don't think replacing the binding will hurt the value. They usually go for between $40-80 on eBay, so I wouldn't worry too much.
I checked out your website, and you say you are on the east coast, but where?
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I checked out your website, and you say you are on the east coast, but where?
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I'm in Newington, Ct
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I just cut away all the shrunken binding. I feel like that was a good step in saving the old manual. I'm going to bind it with thick yarn until I get it rebound with plastic comb binding. What a relief. All pages ,front and back, are in great shape.
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Am I mentioned, I disassembled it around 1963. The frame, gas tank, wheels and rear fender have been as one since about 1960. I'm going to mount everything except the motor and then will post pics. It has the older style handle bars without twist grips. That's why I think it may be from 40 or 42. I'll check the rear brake to see if it is stamped steel or cast iron. Will that narrow down year made?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Am I mentioned, I disassembled it around 1963.
Thanks,
henrylr
I cleaned it up a bit...not ready for pics yet. But it has the flat bars for seat mast and where the clutch mounts. The clutch pedal has only one round pad for the front of the left foot. It has front and rear brakes and they are not cast iron. The upright that the handle bar mounts to is marked Pat No. 99301. maybe this info will help date it.
Thanks,
henrylr
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Can't wait to see the handlebars and controls!. Henry, I have several early brochures and may be able to help narrow down the year through them.
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Am I mentioned, I disassembled it around 1963. It has the older style handle bars without twist grips. That's why I think it may be from 40 or 42. I'll check the rear brake to see if it is stamped steel or cast iron. Will that narrow down year made?
Thanks,
henrylr
I have to mention that Bill Erickson has been very helpful. We have emailed back and forth a few times and I sent him info that crankcase is stamped G1244. Based on that he thinks it might be a 41 or 42.
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I personally think it is a 1941, but these are very hard to date, especially the early models. I wonder how many bikes Simplex put out in 1942, as the war effort did not allow much left over for public consumption. I can't wait to se some pictures.
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I personally think it is a 1941, but these are very hard to date, especially the early models.
I searched the patent no 99301 on the upright that the handle bar mounts into. US patent 99301 is for a meat chopper dated 1870. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Note that the Model G was made from April 1940 to December 1944. With known serial numbers exceeding 5000, it's likely this bike is a late 1940. There are brochures and manuals posted for this model. Does it have a clutch?
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It has a clutch, on the left, with just a round pad for front of left foot. I'll be posting pics soon.
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Correction on clutch pedal operation. It’s operated by left foot heel. Rear brake pedal is operated by right foot heel.
Also short fuel line is connected to bottom left side of tank. That line connects to small fitting welded to left side of flat bar about 2" below tank. Small filter bowl top connection screws into bottom of fitting. Another fuel line runs from filter bowl outlet to carb. Doomed, two plug, cylinder head and crankshaft are ones pictured in improvements for 1939, but connecting rod is older one with the screw-on flat spring that goes over the connecting rod crankshaft retaining screw.
Seat rests on round coil spring and has single leaf bolted to frame. Pics tomorrow, but I’m guessing it may be a 1940.
It also has heavy cast iron kick stand that swings out on left side.
Question about the brakes. I read that earlier drum brakes were stamped metal and later were cast iron. Is that the outer body of the brake, that spokes connect to, or is it something that requires brake disassembly to check?
That PAT. NO. 99301 still has me confused.
Thanks,
henrylr
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As far as I know, the early backing plates were cast, where as the later are fabricated steel. The drums are pressed steel.
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Are backing plates the curved pieces that the brake lining material is riveted to?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Finally some pics.
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Are backing plates the curved pieces that the brake lining material is riveted to?
Thanks,
henrylr
No, that is just part of the brake shoe. The backing plate is the part of the brake that holds the shoes and provides the lever action.
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Thanks Rick. More pics.
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Henry thanks for the photos. I've spent quite a bit of time scrolling through them and applaud you for preserving this little cycle while in your care over the decades. The readers of my build thread and individual posts probably see me as more of a custom builder and with good reason, but I spent at least half of my hobby life restoring cars, trucks and cycles to 100 percent original condition. This said you absolutely have a great candidate for restoration either to factory spec or to the original patina of a 70 year barn find in perfect operating condition. Of course as the owner bringing it back as a rider in whatever form is fine as well or selling as is or up and running. I'd sure like to see this one back on the road as I'm sure all on the forum would agree. Thanks again for sharing with us on the forum. I'm already following as one of your fans and of your Simplex. Rick C.
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Thanks Rick. I also have all the original clutch, magneto and motor parts, Tillotson carb and muffler. The only thing that may be missing is the connecting rod retaining screw and front fender mounting bracket. I put a lot of pics of the original seat in the Tanks, Seat, Controls, section.
henrylr
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Henry, that is one beautiful survivor. There was one at Portland last year. But it wasn't that complete. The rear clutch and brake pedal is in between the direct drive and the rocker clutch model. The guy at Portland seemed to think his was a '39 or '40. As you will find out, putting an exact date on these little scoots can be kind of tricky. Simplex engineers came up with an idea, and put it into production as soon as possible. Sometimes not waiting for a model or year change. I'll try to find the pictures I took at Portland and post them for comparison. Congrats on a family heirloom. Bob
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Hi Bob53,
I want to sell it as is. Everything is original and it was gloss black with gold stripping and the large servi-cycle symbols on both sides of the tank. By the time I got, in 59, the paint and tank symbols had deteriorated and there were spots of surface rust. That is why I sanded and sprayed it. Any thought on what it might be worth?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Based on my written descriptions, and photos, can anyone tell me what year it is?
Pics of original saddle are posted in the Tanks, Seat ,Controls section.
Thanks,
henrylr
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Based on my written descriptions, and photos, can anyone tell me what year it is?
Pics of original saddle are posted in the Tanks, Seat ,Controls section.
Thanks,
henrylr
There is no one who can tell you exactly what year that bike was built. Records just do not exist. That said, I have good information that the left heel operated clutch only lasted until December, 1940, as they failed rapidly.
I am assuming that this bike has an early Wico magneto. Please post a picture of the flywheel with a tape measure across the front for sizing. For that matter, do you have all the engine parts? If any are missing, it will be very hard to find them.
Hard to put a value on this, but the early shift bikes don't usually bring as much as the later automatics, as they are simply not as user friendly and rideable.
What are YOU looking to get for it, that is the question?
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I took 13 motor pics. 8 in this post and 5 in the following post.
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Last 5 pics.
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Last pic in the last post is the third matching hand lever. Other two are on the handle bar. Only things missing now are wrist pin retainers, muffler and front fender mounting bracket. Crankcase has rotary valve, and it and all related parts in place, and it rotates easily and is nice and shiny.
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Just rubbed a few wheel spokes and part of rim and only seems to be years of dust and grease. No rust on paper towels.
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Doesn't seem there is to much action on this site. Is there another site where it may be easier to sell my bike?
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This is the only site for Simplex. This is a limited hobby for sure, as most of the older guys that owned these as youngsters are dying off. Sort of like the cars from the 1920's to late 1950's are loosing there luster,and value, as that generation dies off.
For a reference, I have bought 4 automatics in the last 5 years, none running but mostly complete. I have paid from $700-1400 for these non running bikes.
I think you need to put a value on it, and go from there. If not, eBay is always an option.
BTW, that is the Wico magneto they used from 1940 until they changed to the Phelon sometime in 1955-56. The breaker plate for that magneto needs to be replaced.
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Thanks Rick. I'm over 70 years old and appreciate your reply. I'll give a little time on this site then put it on ebay.
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Rick, what part is the breaker plate and why does my breaker plate need to be replaced?
Thanks,
henry
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Rick, what part is the breaker plate and why does my breaker plate need to be replaced?
Thanks,
henry
Breaker plate holds the points, coils, condenser. It is missing a piece, broken off.
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Rick is this the broken plate you are reffering to?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Yes, I can't see the whole plate, but that is missing a hunk. It would still probably work fine, but I wouldn't use that on a restored bike, unless absolutely necessary.
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I 'repaired' the plate on my '57 with JB Weld .
Before :
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/pdcomm/Simplex/HPIM1549.jpg)
After ( sorry , no close up ) :
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/pdcomm/Simplex/HPIM1680_zps12d17137.jpg)
Pete : )
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Pete, did you have the broken piece or did you build it up out of JB weld?
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Good question , Rick .
The piece was missing , so the 'gap' was simply filled with JB Weld . I used tape for supports , inside and out . I had to apply it twice as the first time I tried too soon and the JB was really thin and runny . The second time I let it set up a bit before placement .
When I was forming the cured JB , I got a little too aggressive and formed a little flat spot on the outer edge . I left it .
The 'patch' seems to be holding nicely after more than 3 years .
Pete . :)
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I appreciate all the feedback but really want to sell it as is. I've got about 26 new close-up pics that show no rust on almost everything. If anyone is interested please contact me.
Thanks,
henrylr
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Hi all,
I still haven't found any info on the marking on the handle bar mounting upright.The post appears to be a casting and the marking looks like it was in the mold. The marking reads PAT. No. 99301. Here is the photo. Has anyone seen a marking like that on other handle bar posts? Will it help narrow in on the make date?
Thanks,
henrylr
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Henry, some of the early Simplex parts were made in England. Maybe that is why your patent search didn't show anything.
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patent numbers can go for years. I found pictures of a 1940 G1040. If the "G" started in April of '40 and maybe the heel brake ended in Dec. of '40. this is most indubitably as close as you can date your Simplex without producing some form of document. If yours is G1244 then you can deduce what month it may have been manufactured in. The next number I have for a 'G' G3641. marked as a 1941.
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Thanks kartjockey. I spent several hours on patent search sites, including one that searches worldwide patent data bases, and 19 patents came up for 99301. One was a US patent for a meat chopper dated 1870. The others where foreign country patents that had nothing to do with bicycles or handle bars. Have you or anyone else ever seen a handle bar mounting post with any markings? I'm not looking to get closer to make date anymore. Just curious about the marking
Thanks,
henrylr
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I have searched several patents as well. Including yours but didn't find anything either nor have I seen a stem with a number on it like that. I searched a Kodak one from a tripod I have and it came perfectly with a blueprint(1922). But I know once you start paying attention specifically a person will notice something like that more. I don't consider myself a Simplex guru but I do take a lot of pics. This allows me to capture a lot of things. Like the 1940 I have pics of has 'Simplex' printed right on the drive belts but then later ones have 'Dayton made in the USA' on them. What does yours have?
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The motor to pulley (small) belt is marked 5L25C-DATCC FHP 21. Maybe my uncle or father replaced the original over the years they drove it. It is still flexible and in good condition. The large, pulley to wheel rim, belt is de-laminated in several places, dried out and unusable, and I can't find any markings on it.
The tires are are marked SIMPLEX, have been flat for years, are dried out, have cracks and are somewhat hardened. I wouldn't try inflating the inner tubes with tires in present condition. Can they be made ply-able again, not for driving but, for display?
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The belts are nothing special, they are just off the shelf B belts.
As for the tires, I rode around the block a couple of times on some originals a couple years back. I didn't go fast and they would skid very easily. I replaced them with the reproductions that are available from Wayne, and the bike was a much better rider. That said, I sold the originals at Portland a few years back for $25 for the pair, and I told him what I thought about them. He said they were just going on a roller bike to get it up off the rim.
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Thanks richS. Still wonder if there is a way to make the tires a little plyable.
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continual wiping them down with silicon oil (DOT 5 brake fluid) or Armor All might be all one can do. Even if they aren't ever actually ran it would be great just to preserve them for reference. Are their sizes and appearance the same as the ones you see on our later bikes on here?
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Thanks. All I know is that they were on the bike when I got in 59. I just made a roll-around dolly to get the tires off the ground. I'll try treating the tires. I would love to inflate them. As I've said the bike is essentially rust free and the motor bearings spin smoothly. It would be an easy restoration.
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Throw the Armor all away . It looks good for the short term , but actually breaks down rubber and vinyl in the long run .
You might try Wintergreen Oil . It's used in the go kart racing world as a tire prep . Thor Tire prep #12 .
Scroll to the bottom : http://www.trjkarting.com/misc-tire-prep-and-conditioners/
Here's a thread on conditioning old rubber parts and thoughts on tires :
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,62328.0.html
Pete . :)