General Category => Other Things Simplex => Topic started by: Sonrisers on November 23, 2013, 07:40:34 PM
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I saw on the vmbc web site there must have been some "spatting" goin on a while back. Was there some complaining done with the president? I haven't seen any updates on the site for quite a while. I stopped even checking the forums... not even worth the time. That is a shame that there are that many members in the club and no one wants to take the time to do any updating. I sure had a blast at Portland this year, I hope they decide to make some changes to the web site and forums....it does not take long for a BIG event to turn into a small event when organizers start fighting.
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The body pretty much follows the head .
Changes , easy changes , have been suggested more than once , by more than a couple people , but you see what that brought .
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I think most of the people that were trying to get Darren to make changes have given up. It just wasn't worth it. I spoke to him at Portland, he is registered here to see what he could have, but choses not to.
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I think part of it is the bulk of the VMBC membership are older "non-computer" types, and that includes the "board" of the club. They don't appreciate the power the web has to offer. They are cozy with the way things are right now. They have a stable population (although they are getting older by the day) & a manageable convention that keeps the ball rolling. They may be afraid that by letting the world wide web have a bigger influence, things could spin out of their ability to control it.
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That's tunnel vision with a slash of paranoia ::) ::)
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I delt with Darren this year getting everything lined up to do the kettle korn at the event, and he was always very helpful and pointed me in the right direction. He also said he didn't know what the board would think about letting another food vendor in, and I think he went to bat for me at the board meeting, seemed like a real nice guy, I bet there is alot more going on behind the scenes. Hope it all works out.
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awhile back I wrote on here and ask if anyone else felt that vmbc was just for cushmans. well I wrote to Darren and the letter I got back was just amazing. he said that his dad did the magazine and yes he leaned to cushmans and that's just the was it is. SO, guess what, I no longer am a member of vmbc and don't really care. my son and I have a lot of simplexs and well just enjoy them at places that like everything. by the way, Cushman has a national club and a magazine.
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I think Darren is a nice guy & understands the shortcomings of the magazine (& convention). I don't expect much to change until some more of the old timers have to step down to let new blood in. Now having said that, I don't know that I want to step up to volunteer, as like a lot of us, I have too much on my plate already.
Another thing we have to keep mind of is that we are little fish in a big motorbike pond. The Cushmans will always get top billing even thou they have their own club & magazine. Had Paul build a little more bulletproof motor, maybe there would have been more Simplex survivors out there & we'd get a little more recognition.
Mike Sal
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I saw on the vmbc web site there must have been some "spatting" goin on a while back. Was there some complaining done with the president? I haven't seen any updates on the site for quite a while. I stopped even checking the forums... not even worth the time. That is a shame that there are that many members in the club and no one wants to take the time to do any updating.
Here's the short version of what happened:
Apparently member bjm (I did not know the identity of that person until coming here and seeing it) had been corresponding with Darren about magazine content which leans heavily Cushman and Whizzer. Darren took offense to some of the things that were said and got upset. So...Darren goes on to the VMBC forum and posts his "sorry I have neglected to reply to the website recently" thread. Within that thread he mentioned that he'd post an "explanation" of the delay. A few days go by and then suddenly the "explanation" appears on the club's homepage that was basically a copy and paste job of bjm and Darren's email exchange along with comments added by an upset Darren.
I am the one that wrote the lengthy reply to Darren's forum posting. I thought Darren really needed to hear (or see) that and I still stand by what I wrote. My post was about how poorly I felt Darren handled the situation and that he made private communication public. It was not a "he's right, you're wrong" kind of post. I am not going to re-post that re-hash all of the content...you can go to the VMBC forum page and have a look. One of the things I suggested was that Darren pull that off the club homepage, which he did several days later. He hasn't been on the forum since then and the overall website has not been updated since.
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All of the things said in this thread are right on, as far as I'm concerned.
I think Darren is a nice guy and corresponded with him off and on for a few years about a variety of subjects, mostly things he would mention in the magazine or at times when he was soliciting information and opinions on different things.
I also think that perhaps Darren was a little shell shocked by what happened on the forum which is to say quite a few folks came along asking questions and making suggestions on club issues and Darren was having to make on-the-record "official" responses to all of these things as the club president. Some things were addressed and addressed well, some things weren't. Some things he simply ignored and did his way. But because he was always there, the forum turned into a glorified question and answer form.
I think Mike Sal hit the nail on the head saying that the club is cozy with the way things are. They have the magazine and do it the way they've done it for 20+ years (I've been a member of VMBC for 16 so at least that long) and they have the Portland meet which they also don't want to seem to make any real changes to.
Like I said, I've been a member for quite a while so I've seen what's changed over the last 16 years: very little. The club is really sort of a "good 'ol boys" club. There is a "board" that is supposed to govern the club. In my 16 years in the club there have been few changes to that roster. Those positions seems to be bestowed upon a chosen few and simply traded back and forth between the old guard. I can't recall the general membership ever being asked for nominations or to vote on board members. There is also no obvious way to determine what the term limits are or even if there are any. You'd think bylaws would have been distributed to the membership, but I've never seen such a thing. That group seems to act darn near in isolation and what they say goes. If they don't want the change, it isn't happening no matter what. How to get on the VMBC's radar and eventually on the board is a total mystery to me. Since most of those people are the "non-computer" type, what's going on with the club website seems foreign to them and they don't really care; it's all about Portland and the 4 magazines per year to reminisce about the last one and trump up the coming one.
I've also been to Portland. A lot of folks show up with a lot of interesting machines, but it's really a free-for-all sort of environment. I guess everyone seems happy with that, but I feel that it could be "better" and safer with only minor changes. Personally I think what's really happening is that the meet has already grown beyond what the VMBC can really control and organize and as a result the number of issues and complaints probably rises each year.
The VMBC forum is really what's tragic though. There is the potential for a goldmine there (getting the vintage motorbike and scooter community all active in one place could be unbelievable), but they are using OLD, clunky software that does not support private messages, emails, photo posting, etc. It's sad that the club paid for (and continues to pay hosting for) what they have now which is pitiful.
Suggestions have been made, questions have been raised. Most have discovered that pursuing those things just isn't worth the headache and they gave up and moved on.
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Don't let this discourage anyone from going to Portland! The meet is really fun; great people, good times had by all! We need 50 Simplexes there for next year!!!
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Are there 50 signed on here that go to portland? Should be easy then!
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i think doodle bug was right on the mark. iam sure portland is fun, but the name of the club is VINTAGE MOTOR BIKE CLUB. NOT CUSHMAN SCOOTER CLUB
guys, i change all the time if its better, iam 70 years old, i race simplex go karts, am the state president of a motorcycle club i wont name. if you dont change youll be left behind and that seems to be whats happening. i didnt relize that the membership didnt have a vote in the vmbc, WOW
please dont get me wrong,iam not trying to piss anyone off, just venting about how one sided they are.
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The only reason I belong to the club is to get into the Portland meet without having to pay each day. I could care less about the magazine, and even less about the judged show!
If I lived in the Ohio area, where it appears a majority of the trustees live, I might be more involved.
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Are there 50 signed on here that go to portland? Should be easy then!
Hard to get people to travel far!
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Things go as planned and me and my friend Ken will be there with two bikes...rounding up parts each day... Ones gonna be a truck copy.
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Tell me about it. Having to put in the time off by Dec 15 and hope the senior staff doesn't take it before it gets to you. Then having to put fuel and lodging cash aside within the time allotted. Then spend a day driving there and a day back home and thats just hitting the highlight. :o
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Tell me about it. Having to put in the time off by Dec 15 and hope the senior staff doesn't take it before it gets to you. Then having to put fuel and lodging cash aside within the time allotted. Then spend a day driving there and a day back home and thats just hitting the highlight. :o
Reese, you are hardcore!! That was a hell of a haul you made last year! I thought my trip was long, but Texas is several hundred miles further.
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Just looked up where Reese lives. His trip was 1140 miles according to google maps. My 750 miles pales in comparison.
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They do everything BIG in Texas! If it had been a short drive he probably wouldn't have come!!!
I'm only 6 hours away from Portland so it's not too bad.
I just got back from a 490 mile trip to Peru, Kansas to do a ww2 reenactment. Spent a night in Coffeeville where the Dalton gang had their last shoot out in 1892.
Mike Sal
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Drive em there next year.!!!!
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It is a long way for most, and can get expensive, we would not have been able to afford it if we hadn't set up the kettle korn. That gathering for the picture was awesome....if we can spread the word better next year, I bet we can get a lot more Simplexes for a pic, and maybe even a group ride. I also think the more we stand out like that, the more they will recognize the Simplexes. I personally liked all the scooters, there were a lot of them that I'd never seen before, but I'm still partial to the Simplex.
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I spoke with Darren today. He reached out to me to find out more about our website. He is very aware of how poor the one they have is. He has been talking with his site builder and there will be changes in the future. I told him he needs to use a format like we have.
Is anyone on here able to build a forum website like this. Bob Gurkin did a great job getting this one running. If I knew how to start it, I would try to help out.
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I'll contact my buddy Paul tommorow.... He's good with these.
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I've built and/or had a major hand in building a couple different sites .
Here's the latest ( cost : $89/ year ) : http://commonbiker.com/#
I'd be willing to help Darren out if he's open to that .
Pete . :)
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Cool, I hope things work out, lot of room for improvement.
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I've built and/or had a major hand in building a couple different sites .
Here's the latest ( cost : $89/ year ) : http://commonbiker.com/#
I'd be willing to help Darren out if he's open to that .
Pete . :)
Pete, I think he would love to have your help! If you put together the forum, they could link to it from their current site.
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Possibilities , for sure .
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Any new developments on this? Are you working with them, pd?
Has anyone been in touch with the VMBC (Darren) lately?
Their forum remains very slow, so just wondering. Haven't seen anything new myself.
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Nothing new . Seems the wheels of progress are a bit slower than a watched pot of water .
Pete . :)
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My feeling is nothing is going to change until the leadership changes. I think Darren works hard for the VMBC, but that technology just isn't his thing.
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I think the only thing that would change that leadership is if everything but cushmans were eliminated. its really ashame, after all, it is the VINTAGE MOTOR BIKE CLUB
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SMF and phpBB forum software (which SMF is based off of) are standard packages that most ISP/Web Hosting Companies can do. In fact the majority have the installers right in the Admin Login Section. It's a cakewalk if you want it, I know I used to work for one of those hosting companies..
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Welcome back Driver, we haven't heard from you in a long time! Did you ever get a bike?
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Not yet. At this point, with the economy in mind, I've been concentrating on the mortgage and getting that paid off before I go after those "toys" that tug at my heartstrings. :) I won't go into debt for pretty much anything anymore. The house 4 yrs ago was a exception and with luck will be free and clear in a little over a year. I still from time to time look at the used ads to see if something comes up nearby to look at as I cruise by here. 3 ice days in Austin and I'm catching up on my web cruising.
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Just checked the VMBC site and rec'd : HTTP Error 503. The service is unavailable.
For how long ???
Pete . :)
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Just checked the VMBC site and rec'd : HTTP Error 503. The service is unavailable.
For how long ???
Pete . :)
Does it really matter? LOL
What is even funnier is their old site has current info for the 2014 show on it.
http://www.vintagemotorbike.org/
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I guess not , Rick .
Dead is as dead does .
Pete . :)
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April 21st and their "new website" is still dead. That's 48 days after the initial posting here mentioning that the site was down. In this day and age most website outages are able to be corrected in a matter of minutes or hours, not weeks and months. Unbelievable.
Yep, the old one is still up and does, indeed, have the 2014 info posted. But it's REALLY hard to read...for me it's yellow text on their yellow and white logo background.
They either haven't paid their hosting bill or they've had a massive server failure (or both?). I wonder if any of the VMBC administration even knows about the outage, let alone cares. I suppose that really means that only Darren might know as he was the only one ever on it from the administrative side, but he isn't really a technology guy so who knows what he's doing about it.
Honestly, I wonder if the club as a whole is going to slowly dwindle away. I really question if there are enough "younger" folks that are dedicated enough to the hobby to replace all of the old timers and have the interest and desire to host the annual meet, issue a quarterly magazine, and maintain a website. Maybe this is the first nail in the coffin?
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That site has been up a couple times in the aforementioned 48 days . But I could not log in . I saw that one new post was made since about Jan . 15 by a new member .
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I think the club should just give up on the magazine. Seems to me, a lot of expense and effort, for not much more than pictures from Portland. I think they should focus their efforts on the website, as this is a much better way to get the word out. I am sure there are still a few people left in this country without internet, but the vast majority are connected. It is time to move into the 2000's as a club, and leave behind the 1960's mentality! LOL Look what we have accomplished HERE in 3 years; the VMBC hasn't done similar helping get info out to the motorbike community in 30 years.
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I think the club should just give up on the magazine. Seems to me, a lot of expense and effort, for not much more than pictures from Portland.
I agree about the magazine content.
They have a President and Vice President's message that always seem to say the same thing, at the same time each year; the rest of the magazine content is mostly either about going to Portland, rules/safety/camping issues for Portland, or photos from Portland. Rarely is there anything else to see. Yes, a lot of effort and expense for a glossy photo album filled with only a handful of "on-topic" photos. Too many photos of random (and unidentified) groups of people sitting around, kids on bicycles...you get the idea. When asked about making changes, the response came (on their forum) that the "editor" (not to be confused with the publisher) was set in his ways and not open to any criticism at all. ::)
The main appeal of the magazine (to me anyway) was always the classified section. At one time the classifieds in the back of the magazine were consistently about 6 pages, and occasionally even more than that. Now they seem lucky to pull off 2 1/2 pages.
Without changes, I really do think that club will have tremendous issues going forward. A good website would definitely be a tremendous step in the right direction. I was not aware that it had been up since the outage was initially reported...I hadn't attempted to visit since then until today and discovered that it is (still??) down.
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I enjoy receiving magazines rather than looking & reading newsletters on line, but I'm old school. It was very dissappointing when I purchased about 10 years worth of back issues only to discover they were nearly all identical.....
Mike Sal
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I enjoy receiving magazines rather than looking & reading newsletters on line, but I'm old school. It was very dissappointing when I purchased about 10 years worth of back issues only to discover they were nearly all identical.....
Mike Sal
Hence my suggestion to can it and go online only.
I think the club should be about getting info out on the scooters, and have people contribute knowledge that can help the next person get their scooter running.
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Technology is scary to the older generation. I deal with it every day in the job I have. I work for a cable co, and I am always adding equip that the older folks are just terrified of. When they will actually take the time to listen to me explain it, they find out it isn't so bad. But 90% of the time they won't even listen and never do get it. My father in law was the same way about computers til his brother in law bought them one. He is into old tractors, now you can't get off of it. This will be TOUGH to change, but it would be a change for the better if we could just get the ball rolling. I think we need to get after Wayne also, how many more parts would he sell if he was connected???
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I think Wayne stays off the grid because he doesn't want to scale up. Between the cushman & simplex stuff, I think he stays as busy as he wants to be.
The VMBC is a pretty decent sized club. It's hard to believe that there aren't some younger members who are better connected than we are & as frustrated as we are that could push the old timers along a little. Could be just no body wants to pick up the ball & run with it. I was a newsletter editor for our local studebaker club for 10 years & I got super burned out.
As much as we want to complain, if none of us are willing to step up to the plate, `we're stuck with what we got.....
Mike Sal
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They've had folks (including me, actually) offer to help and express interest in club "jobs" and leadership roles. My experience has been that they simply aren't interested doing anything different. They get upset and defensive when suggestions are made and questions are asked even when done so in a calm, logical, non-personal-attack sort of way. I can only conclude they don't want to hear it and certainly don't want or feel they need any change.
In terms of personnel and those with "power" (if you want to call it that)...well, you're either in the inner-circle or you're not. If you're not in it, your chances of working your way in are pretty slim. It's almost impossible for new folks to work their way to the inside when, rather than hold elections, folks get hand picked and receive an appointment to the post from whomever currently holds the job or is the club President. The general membership doesn't have a clue any of this is going on until they've read (sort-of) about this stuff in the magazine months after is actually happened.
Yeah, I know...I need to get over it. That club seems destined to the poster child of "it is what it is." Take it or leave it, I guess.
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Doodle Bugger,
You are right in all aspects.
I once belonged to an international organization that went south because of the older members refusal to move forward.
I'll not mention it's name for respect of my elders that might see this but it is a shame on them to let something die.
I have been a business owner for most of my life. My philosophy in business is that "If it is not growing it is dying"
The same is true in many things such as clubs, churches, schools etc.
It is a sad fact that some people never see this and let some things go by the wayside due to their ignorance or like of foresight. We do what we can but some times we need to stand down and let nature take it's course.
Enough Said
Cheers
Stafford
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doodle bugger is right on as always about the vmbc. after I got my wonderful reply from Darren last year, I decided I can live without their Cushman magazine every quarter. and that's all I ask was why they don't have more pixs of ALL motorbikes. the answer was because DAD wont change. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :'(
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nothing worse than a stagnant club......without the Portland meet theyld have nothing.