Author Topic: Simplex 5 speed build  (Read 167055 times)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #240 on: March 21, 2016, 01:02:53 PM »
That is the custom tag! Mines just like that only personalized.... SIMPLE.  I guess SAMPLE was all that was left & how innovative to offer it in Sooner Crimson. Why didn't I think of that?   Actually I think all license plates are ugly!  Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #241 on: March 22, 2016, 06:29:51 AM »
I've been looking at small V-twin with integrated transmissions & am leaning towards the Virago 250  cc it actually is not as tall as the 125 cc single in the Copper Gator. Shipping weight is about 100 lbs. & it's air cooled lots of engines and parts available as well. Not super powerful but it looks as if it can be reliably built out and fat cammed to about 28 hp without getting too radical for day to day riding. I'm not too concerned about power but I would like to be able to cruise at 75 mph to keep pace with the big bikes for rallies and local poker runs. I may run rear suspension swing but won't if the vintage look is wrong or the frame looks too busy. Minimal is a good look & in keeping with a 30's flat track theme, but rear suspension would be nice. Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #242 on: March 29, 2016, 12:20:35 PM »
I hope this finds all well after Easter trips & visits. I had time to enjoy others and charge my batteries so to speak.

Monday I decided to inspect bit by bit the Copper Gator & see if anything was suspect. One off builds are like rank stock bucking bulls & constantly develop ways to throw the rider off. Poor design, cheap parts, bad assembly practices, lack of cooling and or lubrication, off alignments, use of sub standard fasteners and crappy welding techniques or materials are just a few reasons of many that the fabricator/rider needs to avoid & be aware of. Periodic & frequent inspections are necessary to avoid problems some of which might lead to disaster.

Forty five minutes later several loose bolts are Loc-tite and torqued. I found that both the primary and secondary chain were too loose & the pedal chain just right...no surprises with that, but rather than just adjust I decided to finish the torsion spring chain tensioner I'd begun several weeks ago. I first looked into using an elastic torsion spring rather than an extension steel spring ( think screen door closer) cause the extension spring is so dang ugly! After my rather weak attempts using elastic I decided to use a small steel torsion spring and lever arrangement similar to what's used in a multi-speed rear derailleur on the typical Shimano bicycle system only much more robust and simple. My prototype is close to mountable.  Rick C.     

pd

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #243 on: March 29, 2016, 01:11:03 PM »
Pics of the prototype tensioner , Please . :)

Pete . :)
Goes around , Comes around . :)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #244 on: March 30, 2016, 05:18:17 AM »
I still have one small but important part to fab, but this is roughly it. Though I've left a lot of material in place for final fit up which will be removed or replaced with appropriate sized materials after some run time & testing. Nothing really original here just re-purposed ideas that should look good and work properly. Not much going on but looks like a lot of parts involved till it's assembled & then it looks simple...which works in my minimalist viewpoint.

Total lever movement is about 1.5" of deflection at the nylon chain roller. Just a guess but I'd say 20 degrees of travel at the torsion springs leg end and maybe 15 lbs. of resistance on the roller. This should be enough to control the relatively light unsupported section of chain involved.

Belts make a lot of sense yet I'm still using chains typically 2 chains but on this build three all wear at different rates and on the Copper Gator the pedal chain may never wear to any appreciable degree. Substantive axle adjustment alone isn't a possible solution to dual chain wear, thus the necessity of half links and or tension device on the chain that recieves the most wear. The spring tension types run smoother and quieter than a fixed idler type...though I'm tempted to run both at the same time on this one, if chain slap (side to side movement) with one is a problem. I've not encountered this with the current idler sprocket and running a sprocket on the spring tensioner is quite probable as well...I'll see.

Still more changes to come but at the moment I see this as the only one that is substantive & till it's completed the Gator will be relegated to the bike stand. Rick C. 


pd

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #245 on: March 30, 2016, 08:46:57 AM »
That seems like it will do a better job than the 10 tooth idler .

I created a similar set up on a Honda CB750 I use to have . I used the center stand as the base / attachment point . The original center stand spring was just a little weak , but it did a good job . Had I kept that bike , I would have installed a stronger spring .



That^ pic was taken about a month after initial installation . That tensioner worked well and definitely extended chain life .

Pete . :)





Goes around , Comes around . :)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #246 on: March 30, 2016, 11:01:07 AM »
That's creative use of an existing structure Pete! Variable chain tension does extend chain life, reduces vibration & 4 out of every 5 chain adjustments...which is time consuming on my double chain final drive setups. Rick C.   

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #247 on: March 31, 2016, 05:13:28 AM »
I decided to use the automatic spring tension lever with the nylon roller mounted. I also am running  the manually adjustable idler sprocket in conjunction with the automatic. The thought behind this was to shorten the chain section length which is mainly supported by the torsion spring lever. The lever & the vertical chain movement is cut by 100% of that noticed when the automatic spring lever is used alone. All of the mechanism is mounted inside the frame tubes, mounting is a bit crude but solid at this point of testing. I'll tidy all after proving. Rick C.   

Sonrisers

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #248 on: April 01, 2016, 08:29:48 AM »
Rick C., I have been "silently" watching the progress on this project since day 1....and I must say I'm impressed with your workmanship and creativity. I haven't had as much time to play on the forum as I used to, but I still try to catch up once or twice a week. I like the copper you have integrated into the design, it really highlights it.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #249 on: April 02, 2016, 10:03:01 AM »
Thanks for the props. I lurked for many months before joining & then took a 4 month "sabbatical" in the midst of my Copper Gator build without posting...life happens. I have taken a liking to your Yellow fellow '55 though. I have a background in restoration & admire original, though I've been concentrating on modified for a good long while now. Only stocker I have at the moment is the '48 Chevy sedan 100% original & runs/drives like new. Kettle corn was instrumental in a "come to Jesus moment" in my life...it's a powerful force & not to be taken lightly!  Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #250 on: April 03, 2016, 01:26:47 PM »
Motor drive side showing the idler sprocket "fixed tension" & the torsion spring "automatic" chain tension lever working together. They provide a very smooth solution to keeping the final drive chain located and under control.
I've started adding brass acorn nuts to lend a finished "classic" look to my little ride. Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #251 on: April 09, 2016, 10:34:33 AM »
Well had a windless day so mi amigo y yo decided to see if my GPS was accurate on "speed" runs and he knew a guy who has a nice  private air strip in a remote area of grass land not too distant. We loaded the Copper Gator & spent a few hours tuning and riding the little beast, still think it ate the shop cat, nice morning cool air & no wind. The strip is asphalt & real smooth and almost a mile in length. Story is the owner was an old hippy back in the early '70's and flew loads  of some "special" grass to big city folk. Probably just a story anyhow luck ran out on him & he did time for his misdeeds rehabilitated, and returned to raise proper livestock fare for a living. Must me money in it cause he sure has a nice place, course they also raised a few oil derricks as well & there's a living to made there as well.

Pleasant day all in all. GPS is close enough for Government work. Drill was to measure off a quarter mile, ease up to 65 mph at the quarter. The truck leading the bike by approximately 75 yards. With the trucks speed control set at sixty five he held that speed for another eighth mile before breaking. I at that point also started breaking. Four runs, only one was inconsistent and that on purpose as I wanted to visibly gain some ground on the truck while it was on speed control. Results on the GPS were plus or minus 1 mph on the three consistent runs at 65 mph and 76 mph as the peak speed reached that day on the closure run.

Tire pressure was checked after each run & tires were allowed to cool back to ambient. Tire temperature was also read each time as well. The Vee brand front tire varied very little. The 3" Kenda  did increase more(% wise) in pressure & temps were higher of course. Vee brand Nola 26" x 2.5" max pressure 65 lbs. I ran at 60 pounds. Kenda 3" cross section max pressure 45 pounds pressure. I ran the rear at 40 lbs. Cool morning, 70 % humidity. Temps didn't get much higher on the 4 test runs than cruising for 20 minutes at a constant 40 mph later that day when the ambient temp was 15 degrees warmer. Quality digital gauges were used for both pressure and temp readings.

I'm now assured my GPS is accurate & I'm gaining respect for the Vee NOLA tire. The importer/distributor has stated that his goal when commissioning the design & production of his Kevlar tire was to surpass that of the Coker Simplex brand at a competitive price in the New Orleans pedicab industry. He may have succeeded. I can't wait till the Vee NOLA are back in stock...I'm ordering some more, though the Kenda tested better than expected, the tire is just whimpy feeling when compared to the Vee NOLA. Though I'm not a fan of the "look" Flame or Hookworm tread patterns they really perform quite well. Won't be going faster on the Copper Gator till I get the Vee Nola's mounted on a new pair of Worksman wheels front and rear.

So far the little beast has been surprisingly lacking in the unexpected.  Rick C.   

Eitek1

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #252 on: April 09, 2016, 09:42:27 PM »
Rick,

NOLA tires has a 2.125 inch tire in stock if you want to give it a try. He gave me a set to mount up and see how I like them. He actually said it should be a tougher tire because the Kevlar strip used covered more of the surface area of the tire. I have the rear worksman rim with the tire mounted and it seems fine.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #253 on: April 10, 2016, 06:42:36 AM »
Glad to hear from you,hope all is going well on your project. I'm currently running the 2.5" Vee NOLA on the front of my Simplex Copper Gator & a similar 3" flame tread pattern on the rear (not at all heavy duty like the NOLA) 2.125" will of course fit the Worksman or my current rims but are just not wide enough. I'm hoping they will eventually decide to commission a production run of the 3" Vee NOLA's but, for now, I'm good waiting for the 2.5" as my Worksman rims are on back order from my supplier as well. Greg at NOLA told me the next shipment was 30 days out so I'll be checking back with them from time to time on arrival status.

The Worksman wheels are definitely up to supporting a lightweight Simplex moto & reasonable load & quite a few are mounting the Worksman wheel with Coker Simplex tires already. Multiple spoons are recommended for mounting, but I also used a few levers to mount the Vee NOLA's to my current wheel.
 
I'm still studying side car information & not finding exactly what I'm looking for in an articulated design. The original one you shared was the best I've seen. It really looks well thought out & executed prototype. I've found many interesting body style and suspensions as well, but not really settled on my ideal. Still prefer the old Indian "look" I suppose. Well good then, Cheers. Rick C.

Ricks

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #254 on: April 10, 2016, 08:13:53 AM »
Rick, did you order steel or alloy workman wheels?  I know the coker simplex tire goes right on the steel wheel, but I have heard they are very hard to mount on the alloy rim.  I am just guessing, but I have a feeling the alloy rim is taller in the rim sidewall, if that makes sense?

NOLA really needs to make a tread that is old school, either ribbed or button.  I think either would sell like hotcakes to the motored bike crowd.
Rick