Simplex 5 speed build

[Ricks]

I'll second the 'smooth ride' .

But , I think the front end rising happens when the front wheel has brakes , as I've never noticed it on my rear wheel only braking .

I see Rick C has the same fork as my '57 which has nuts at the top of the spring fork and the fork springer washer ( # 323 : M manual ) which does take up some of the slop in the top plate .

Pete .

Pete, you are correct, only with front brakes.  Those fork spring washers are still very loose fitting, and can definitely be improved upon.

[pd]

Maybe Tom could make some spring washers that fit better ? Maybe even out of stainless . hint , hint ... 

Pete .

[ndian22]

Thanks guys I must say I'm relieved to hear the forks work well with the caveats mentioned. Pete your correct the forks are 1957 and have the bushings which seem to be a fairly decent fit in the top brace plate. I'll polish the spring guide rod till it shines. Harley had many variations of forks during the twenties and thirties. Several featured spring tower tubes above the top brace. These appear to rise about 4" above the plate Rick & contained the extra springing you mentioned. Some racing bikes featured a "scissor damper" utilizing two leather discs to control fork rebound. Crude but they worked on both Harley's & Indian's competition bikes. I'm pretty well acquainted with fork rise braking & rabbit hop on sprung forks. First time I noticed fork lift I just knew something was broke & probably fell off! Still can't believe I didn't ask you guys earlier about the forks. By the way are the bolts British thread on the forks? Rick C.     

 

[ndian22]

Peashooter Harley build is up on wheels (kinda) I needed to take some measurements before going any further. Wheelbase 49.5" and fork trail 2.75" which are in my wheelhouse & should track & stabilize fine. Loop has 7" of ground clearance now. I'll be cutting the loop out and dropping the motor down 3" And bending the down tube forward about 3" as well to make room for the motor. I had one new Fat Frank's thick brick tire 2.235" x 26" and mounted it on Walmart wheel... stands 27.5" tall and really like the black rim so think I'll order black steel rim and lace 10 gauge stainless spokes to a Sturmy aluminum drum for up front.

Simplex fork seems at home on the Flyer frame & Rick you were right , even though the !957 has bushings they are too loose and will be replaced. Rick C.

[ndian22]

Dropped a photo.

[Ricks]

The simplex front fork looks right at home on that frame.  Are you going to add rebound springs?

[ndian22]

Yes the fork blends in with this frame like I'd visualized almost two years ago. I'll add the girders first, but I'm leaning towards using the leather washer friction damper like Harley used between the forks to control rebound. Pat uses it on his Bonneville racers.  I might try both at the same time. Geometry of the HD & Simplex, while looking quite alike, actually differ plus there's a difference in weight and it's distribution. I hope this doesn't come down to error and trial though it wouldn't surprise me. Rick C.

[ndian22]

Mounted the Simplex fork on the frame, this time using the proper headset for the Flyer frame. Of course the fork steer tube was cut just right for the Simplex, but the neck of the Sportsman Flyer frame is longer and the new threaded  headset race & lock ring wouldn't catch a thread. I tried the original Simplex top race & it matched the bearing size and threaded on about 7/16" to hold the tube & race in place, but not enough to use a lock nut on top. Instead I used a "star nut" from a thread less tube to pull tight against the race nut & effectively jamming the race in place. I got my Simplex forks in place, but just barely!  Next step is to fab a top plate for the tree on which to mount the half moon risers to which the Harley drop bars will be mounted.  Rick C.

[pd]

Will that 'star nut' also lock the head plate / set to the top of the steer tube ?
Or , maybe I'm missing something ?

Pete .

[ndian22]

Hi Pete,
No the top plate will bolt down to the top of the tree secured by the two large back leg bolts. The "star nut" which you probably know, but I'll explain for those who don't, is a special tube fastener which once inserted into the fork tube can't be pulled out. The star bolt serves the function of, a toggle bolt for sheet rock, once inserted the only way they or the star can be removed is to drive them deeper until they fall out the other side. The star is centrally threaded & a hardened bolt about 2" in length is used to secure the cap. The cap puts pressure on the Simplex threaded bearing race nut thus preventing the "race nut" from "backing out". That little bolt attached to the star nut also lifts the complete fork assembly & maintains the proper bearing pressure on the lower crown race bearing assembly in in thread less fork assembly...it's really solid, but that's not an issue with the Simplex fork as the bearing race nut performs that function (as long as it does't back out).

Think of it this way the star nut & cap serve the same function as the large original acorn nut which jams the bearing race nut, but because the Simplex fork tube was too short (or the neck of the Flyer frame too long) the plate will be cut out for access to and visual confirmation that the race and cap are properly in place.

The plate itself will be mounted using the top 2 fork bolts & the handle bars attached to the plate via two half moon risers 2'" tall to which a 7/8" Harley style "drop bars" will be attached.

Sorry for getting so detailed on the answer to any who are familiar with bicycle builds, but it's quite foreign to those who aren't. If your're wondering I measured carefully prior to pressing the bearing cups into place & realized I wasn't going the be able to use the new headset fasteners, but thankfully the Simplex race nut fit the bearing and was designed with a threaded step giving me the required 1/2" reach required to securely attach the headset. That coupled with a spare star nut saved the day & kept me from having to build a longer steer tube as well.    Rick C.     

[pd]

I see what you're saying . As you intend , the stem is a lever on the lower fork plate . Maybe that lower plate is stronger than it looks .

It seems to me that having the head set fasten to the fork stem , along with the 2 top fork bolts , would be much more secure and insure that the stem could not deflect from proper position . The head set would also lock the bearing race nut .

Just speculating ...

Pete .

[Ricks]

Rick, is your head steering tube welded on the front end, or just a loose press fit with a wire retainer?  I have seen them both ways from the factory.  I think I would have just made a longer head tube, but finding a die to thread it would have been an issue.  It probably would be easier to just remove the tube, add some length and sleeve it back together.

Thanks for the explanation on the star nut, as I was not familiar with them.

BTW, I really like that motor the guy on the motorbicycle site is manufacturing.  I am just not sure how many he can sell at that price, as most of the builds over there are done on a much lower budget.

[ndian22]

Pete I'll cut out a paper top plate to show what I'm planning. it secures the top of the two rear legs together making the triple plate quite secure. As long as the race nut is securely in place the head of the frame neck needs no re enforcement. If you've viewed the Red Bull Rampage which shows the insane antics & stress a mountain bike is put through (30' vertical drops are ho hum to these guys) then you have witnessed how incredibly secure the forks the forks are when held in place with no top plate and a star nut on a thread less headset. If the Simplex stem were longer I'd have just used the traditional Acorn as a jam nut with the plate between it and race bearing nut, but the plate's main purpose is to hold the top of the two rear legs of the fork and/or become an attachment platform for the bars, switches etc.

Rick it is welded in place and I plan to weld an additional plate underneath the lower "crown" plate, leg to leg, with a steel tube in the center and about 4.5" in length running up inside the fork tube past the middle tree plate. This will virtually eliminate the possibility of a catastrophic break off of the fork tube from the bottom crown plate. The bottom of the tube & not the top is the weak point of the Simplex design, but I'm noted for being cautious about things which would probably never occur. I've been warned many times over the years by experienced bike builders not to slice & weld the fork tube & I have only vague reasons given as to why. ,  Perhaps the alloy used??? I was about to finally test this logic with a cut and splice, liner and 4 rossette welds & tig the butt joints when a truly simple solution appeared & I'm good with it. 

That engine is the bomb! I totally agree that price seems out of reach to most, but for those set on vintage it's pretty sweet. It will cost me a lot more to restore my HD knucklehead engine, but I'll price it around $7,500. & sell it before it leaves the builder's shop. Authenticity & quality sell in the right markets & I feature Pat D. is in that market & could offer a complete bike package to the upper crust patrons of motor art. He should be looking at Pat for an exclusive distribution arrangement. At any rate it's an extremely attractive package if enough of the base motors are available at a decent price. I wish him great success. "Many write checks that their banks won't clear." -anonymous_

Rick C. 



 

[ndian22]

Rick go to FFV8 website link on his last post. He is building the real deal with parts of quality and which are readily available. I'm actually getting interested. Rick C.

[Ricks]

Rick go to FFV8 website link on his last post. He is building the real deal with parts of quality and which are readily available. I'm actually getting interested. Rick C.

I looked at his site even before I asked how much.  I'm assuming all the other parts that he talks about are HD? 

Rick, have you ever checked out Timeless Motor Company?      http://www.timelessmotorcompany.com/home.html