Author Topic: Simplex 5 speed build  (Read 167034 times)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2016, 05:23:23 PM »
Got the Copper Gator to growl, bit tight at first and had to be continually coaxed to keep running till she warmed up and I got the Mikuni to idle @ 1400 rpm. I'd ghetto/barrio/shade tree rigged (politically correct?) a 6" stinger exhaust and temporary air cleaner for the start & it was quite loud in the shop. Main point; it's a runner without load on. I won't take it out for a test ride until I put a couple of hours on her in the shop, read plug, adjust if necessary then drain oil & clean the strainer. Lot of things to tighten, adjust and lube prior to the test ride. Of course the main item missing is an exhaust system and properly dressing her out with the appropriate appointments.

Made some progress & still having fun! Rick C.

carryall

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #166 on: January 27, 2016, 03:33:22 AM »
VERY COOL.  Always fun to start a new motor, and get that burning question answered!  I'd guess once you get some back pressure from a proper exhaust system, and the engine "loosens up" a bit, you'll be able to tune and adjust that idle down and smooth things out properly.   

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #167 on: January 29, 2016, 07:12:40 AM »
Still tinkering with the exhaust. High style pipe really looks cool at about 24" in total length riding exhaust port high and almost level back to the front of the rear tire. Won't know if it will flow till I test it. Though not as critical to perf as a 2-stroke pipe there are parameters that when violated will significantly degrade performance on a 4-stroke as well.
Weather here is outstanding and I'd sure like to ride the Gator this week. Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #168 on: January 30, 2016, 06:27:50 PM »
Changed exhaust stub to flywheel side which eliminated a double constriction and gives a bit more room to remove the header pipe. Rode a few blocks and shifts fine, mostly rode in bottom three holes at a very slow pace, 25 mph, at most. Not a real test just confirmed that it would run with a bit of load and all 5 gears are functional. Good day.

carryall

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #169 on: January 31, 2016, 04:37:51 AM »
It's gotta be weird/awkward shifting without a foot peg to rest your foot on.  Considered a jockey shift perhaps?

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #170 on: January 31, 2016, 06:01:09 AM »
Actually for a lifelong  bicyclist & horseman who automatically rides with his legs and not his rump it's not. With a hard tail design bike the legs act as your shock absorber. As a lifelong motorcyclists I've always shifted with my foot & with 5 gears I'd have my left hand off the bar too much & then there's the clutch thing I'd have to deal with a "suicide" last two wheel foot clutch I've driven was a Cushman Eagle. I really like the idea of two feet on the ground at full stop, though I can still balance my mountain bikes for several seconds at a stop sign with both feet on the pedals I'd rather not try it everyday on the Gator. Another habit developed out of self preservation on a bicycle is "resting" (while coasting or in all cornering on "level pedals" supporting my weight on the pedals as stated earlier and so as not to "hook" a pedal (make contact with the ground with the pedal) it's easy to catch a pedal on a turn resulting in a bad fall & there aren't any good falls on a bike and certainly not at 69 years young.
My foot position on pedals brings the left foot to shift point without taking the foot off pedal . The pedals are my pegs/ stirrups/pad and out of habitual riding with them I find shifting the gator normal and hadn't even thought that it might seem a bit awkward or unsafe so I'll keep this arrangement in place.
Can't wait to really put some time in the saddle next week if the weather doesn't get too bad. Rick C.     

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #171 on: February 01, 2016, 04:12:21 AM »
Few more angles

Ricks

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #172 on: February 02, 2016, 08:15:26 AM »
Hi Rick,

I know you post over on the motorcycling forum, and this is probably what you wanted to post here:  


Hi & thanks for following, I've read many of your posts and your Pope is righteous! Very cleaver details & just looks right. Went over to Custom M.B. sight & that's 75% of a co-axle drive & the price is right. 3/4" shaft & bearing races for 2" American press fit bracket shell good stuff. If you don't have your own machine shop you will pay at least double what CMB is charging.

I'd also consider calling Pat at Sportsman Flyer, as he has the sprockets as well as the above in a reasonably priced package, set up for his builds...probably need some minor custom machine work on the sprocket carriers for your application... to get correct chain spacing for your setup.

If however you choose to build your own. Here's what I needed in addition to what CMB is offering. 2" steel American bracket shell, cut it off an old frame or search the vendors. Get the axle parts first & make sure the measurements are correct for the exact shell I.D. & length. You can also have a competent machine shop turn a steel shell to s I turned my own parts. I then squared up another 2" inside diameter tube & milled a saddle using a side cutter. This cradles the bracket shell for welding. you end up with a T shape which I welded to a quarter inch steel base plate which was in turn welded to the two frame rails. You are probably building on a single tube frame, if that's the case the shell is either already welded in or you would add it in a somewhat typical bottom bracket location. Build a motor mount cradle & attach to frame weld tabs &/or clamps. I used the Harley clamps and they are wicked strong but pricey. I also used 2 weld tabs for one of my rear engine mounts. These were welded onto my bottom bracket tube.

Main thing on the bottom bracket is to get the axle level & the axle ends parallel with the bikes center-line or the sprockets will wobble.

My engine is set up to be adjustable to left or right, but my goal was to do it once, but make it easy to pull the motor for service. The motor was positioned for balance & then locked into the mounts. I chose to eliminate front to rear adjustments as I chose to not have an adjustable bottom bracket. Both the pedal side chain as well as the secondary chain to the back axle are adjustable only by changing chain length, axle position and the secondary chain by idler sprocket tension. Primary chain is adjusted by length of chain & roller idler tension.

The two sprockets are jack shaft 3/4" identical size. With rear tire mounted with final drive sprocket I established a straight chain line with the inside co-axle sprocket & located a shaft collar to maintain that spacing which was both straight and prevented the chain from ever drifting into the rear tire. I had to actually mill the collar to about 2/3 rd. of it's original thickness to keep the chain at least 1/4" off the tire.
With the engine output sprocket parallel to the bikes true center line a measurement is made to establish the distance between the two free wheeling co-axle motor drive sprockets. Distance between motor drive sprocket & the previously spaced inside co-axle sprocket is made & that distance is the total width of the two jack shaft sprockets when they are welded together. If that distance were 4.5" (measured to center of each chain line) & the combined width of the two jack shaft sprockets is 5" then 1/2" of thickness would need to be milled or surfaced off. If the distance was less, then a plate of sufficient thickness would be added. The jack shafts will be eventually welded together, but the two sprockets must remain parallel to one another in order to run true. I use a 3/4" motor shaft cut off an old electric motor to perfectly align the two sprockets together for welding, prior to welding bevel the pieces for good penetration. After welding remove the alignment shaft & ream the 3/4" hole to accept two appropriate sized press fit bearings , flush mount on each side. I also drilled the remainder of the 3/4" hole 1/32" oversize. These steel jack shafts have a key way broached into them and a set screw is used to hold the key in place. Since the key way is useless in this application I use the set screw hole as a lube point & the over sizing of the 3/4" shaft hole allows the lubricant to flow a bit easier. Zert fitting will work in the same set screw location as well. The bearings are just lightly press fitted.
Another lock collar is placed just out board of the two co-joined free wheeling sprocket carriers & locked in place. If attention is paid to detail then all chain lines will be straight and the primary & secondary chains running parallel.

This seemed a quick and effective way for me. It probably took more time to write this post than it did to make the co-axle sprocket carrier, though the bottom bracket and axle itself took quite a lot more time. I could have milled sprocket carriers and bearing carriers out of aluminum or steel and just bolted sprockets to it & made it easier to experiment with sprocket swap outs, but with a 5 speed just didn't think I'd need to. Hope this helps for your Merkel. Rick C.



Great build Rick C!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 08:50:04 AM by RickS »
Rick

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #173 on: February 03, 2016, 04:50:53 PM »
Thanks Rick that's going above and beyond on your part. I really should pay attention to the time while I post or just keep them simple. Long two days and made progress. I shortened the handle bars by 4" & replaced a throttle cable which oddly enough pulled free from the lead connector in the throttle. I don't remember that ever happening before.

Ran the Copper Gator some 45 minutes of no load while tuning and tinkering. Really starts well & I was able to slow the idle to 1200 rpm & she holds it unattended after the motor warms a bit. Spent some time adjusting the springer fork and front disc brake, during the last ride I noticed the brake caliper was not adjusted properly & the forks were pitching on moderate braking even though the brakes weren't gripping well. Just a part of setup.

I also added two small mirrors...a safety thing even on short test rides. Added a copper feather to the fork & a cool vintage brass & silver "Correct Cycle" on the strap spring just forward of the saddle. I was very careful not to damage a piece of history & it can be removed without harming it.

Also mounted the copper exhaust...not yet permanent but this is exactly how it will sit. The exhaust exactly parallels the upward sweep of the bottom frame tube. I've done my best to show off and complement the lovely original lines of the Servi-Cycle tube frame...though only about 16" inches of tubing in the steer tube area still remain. I'll post the exhaust photos later.  Rick C     

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #174 on: February 03, 2016, 07:22:24 PM »
Gator later photo post.  Exhaust parallels the bottom frame tubes.  Stainless exhaust manifold will be glass wrapped in black & secured with stainless zips after silver brazing, copper to copper joints will be sweated as well. Exhaust is secured by screws while testing. I use the Harley tube clamp for support of the back section of the exhaust as well the saddle air spring & shock. RC

pd

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #175 on: February 03, 2016, 08:56:10 PM »
IDK , that muffler is getting pretty close to where your backside will be when seated .

And , maybe it's just the pics , but the handle bar looks like it would be really uncomfortable in that straight back position . Seems like you'd have much more control and comfort if the grips were dropped . Maybe to the angle of the upper frame tubes ??? Maybe that would be going against your 'design' .

 Just musing .

Pete . :)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 07:11:33 AM by pd »
Goes around , Comes around . :)

carryall

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #176 on: February 04, 2016, 03:20:23 AM »
  I realize your going for the "minimalist" look, and I like what you've done...  I, on the other hand, probably couldn't stop, and would just keep adding more and more "stuff" I like the look of... maybe a black slotted exhaust pipe guard, with a similar design chain guard, small "bobbed" fenders, drop board tracker bars, and detail/paint the engine and engine mounts, etc... But that's me.  I just can't leave "well enough" alone.  (LOL, I love to paint stuff)  How fat of tires can you squeeze on it anyways???
   

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #177 on: February 04, 2016, 06:58:45 AM »
LOL guys, I love all your comments & can't find fault in any of the expressed views. That given my response is to both you guys kinda mixed together. I like your term "minimalist" & my adjectives used for that terms definition as applied to this little moto would include raw, basic (of course), vintage, long & low etc. "my design" is a moving target and as such I've had to "lead it"...get in front of it, in order to ever have a chance of hitting the mark. Original design elements such as maintaining and using the original Simplex frame shape to "frame" the whole build, vintage early day moto pedal feature, board track stance, vintage bicycle wheels (with coaster brake) small multi-speed motorcycle engine: these I've been resolute to retain. In my view I can't miss when I've got these constantly in front of me. All else is subject to elimination and or change and I've changed plenty & I'm not nearly finished! I too can't leave things alone and have a hard time EVER calling a build complete, I'm eaten up with the question. What if? Your comments mirror my own thoughts, not just in your most recent posts either.

I know it's hard to see in the photos but I did shorten the reach back of the handle bars by 4" in preparation for lowering the bars in line with the top frame tubes. It's will enhance the "board track" look & be more comfortable for me as well. It also will place more of my weight forward and that will enhance control a great deal with improved front tire patch/contact etc.

I've got a moto bike with a really high pipe design that is at least 3" closer to both my bum and leg & I've never felt the heat a problem. The position of the bicycle pedals actually keep the legs spread a bit & keeps the legs away from the pipe. The large "bobber" style saddle will also help, which my other high pipe design bike does not feature.

You guys are going to see a few changes coming up, additions and subtractions where necessary. A drive sprocket cover is one that was just suggested a few posts back. Thanks for the input and support guys. Rick C.


ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #178 on: February 04, 2016, 07:21:41 AM »
Carry all, The fork is "maxed out" with 2.5" x 26" on 2.125" wheels, the rear is mounted with same size wheel but has a 3" wide tire mounted and I'm sure a 3.25" tire on the same wheel would fit without much difficulty. I'm told the Coker "Simplex" tire mounts well on a 26" Workman's steel wheel & is speed rated. I have a set of these wheels, if I ever go that route I'll  probably re-lace with 10 ga. spokes... though factory 11 ga. are very strong wheels.

Going bigger on the front would necessitate a fork change & I'd just use a Simplex springer without hesitation. I have a good one that I'm going to re-build but am planning on to use it on an up coming V-twin 1920's dirt track style Harley Davidson tribute bike design (with a roaring twenties style cafe racer conversion) & yes it probably won't have pedals, yet it might lol.  Rick C.

Ricks

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #179 on: February 04, 2016, 07:51:30 AM »
Carry all, The fork is "maxed out" with 2.5" x 26" on 2.125" wheels, the rear is mounted with same size wheel but has a 3" wide tire mounted and I'm sure a 3.25" tire on the same wheel would fit without much difficulty. I'm told the Coker "Simplex" tire mounts well on a 26" Workman's steel wheel & is speed rated. I have a set of these wheels, if I ever go that route I'll  probably re-lace with 10 ga. spokes... though factory 11 ga. are very strong wheels.

Going bigger on the front would necessitate a fork change & I'd just use a Simplex springer without hesitation. I have a good one that I'm going to re-build but am planning on to use it on an up coming V-twin 1920's dirt track style Harley Davidson tribute bike design (with a roaring twenties style cafe racer conversion) & yes it probably won't have pedals, yet it might lol.  Rick C.

Rick, if you change the front fork, go for a leaf spring front end!  I love the look of those old Indian front ends.

Your bike is first rate craftsmanship.
Rick