General Category => Engine & Transmission => Topic started by: Mike Sal on February 07, 2012, 11:49:03 AM
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One of the things I noticed after getting the bike home was that sometimes the gear teeth would slip when trying to kick the engine over. The things I see are that there is some wear on the frame mounting shaft and the brass bushing in the kicker. The other thing I notice is that the left "pivot piece" which connects the sector gear to the kicker has a very large hole vs the size of the pin of the pivot piece. This seems to be the greatest contributor to the gears not being close enough together.
I can weld up & re-turn the mounting shaft from the frame, if I can get it off. It doesn't look like there's any way to get to the nut for the bolt that holds the shaft without removing the motor first. I wasn't really wanting to pull the engine yet. This bike is in decent enough shape, I'd like to get it running before starting any restoration projects (meaning re-painting).
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Guess I didn't figure out how to put more than one photo on a post......
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Mike, I just recently did this. I bought new rivets and links from Wayne. I also bought some bronze bushings and bushed the rivet holes. Wayne told me the one hole is supposed to be oversize, but I bushed them all and just reamed the one hole slightly larger than the rest. I also rebushed the kickstart pedal. Works much nicer now, without all the slop.
Sorry, I didn't take any pictures of this.
Rick
PS: I also resized your photos so they fit on the screen.
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Mike,
I happen to be new to this forum having joined just last week. I recently purchased a 1947 Simplex that I hope to restore back to original. However, before I start dismantling the bike, I, like you would like to get it running first and I've noticed the same problem with the kick starter where the gears don't seem to line up as they should. I bought a couple of new parts from Wayne Mahaffey today so hopefully I'll be able to get this thing started. I look forward to following your restoration as well as communicating the progress on mine. I'm sure that, from time to time, I'm going to need some help from the experts on this forum. Thanks.
Vince
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I just got off the phone with Wayne & have the bushing & pins ordered as well as some new spokes, a tail light lens, & an air cleaner element.
I guess I'll pull the engine mounting bolts so I can lift the engine up enough to get to that kick starter shaft nut (so I can remove the shaft). Wayne suggested just turning the shaft over so the worn area is on the bottom, but if I'm going to the trouble to pull it off, I'll weld it up & turn it down on the lathe. No sense in putting a new bushing on a worn shaft.
I think I'll do the same thing as Rick & put a bushing in that big hole for the one pivot pin, & then start oversizing it until it works ok.
Mike Sal
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Have any of you checked out that kick starter on ebay (search simplex servi cycle)? What models did this fit? Or, was this style of gear used by other brands too?
Hmmm. still no package from Wayne....may have to call him tomorrow....I've thought of a couple of other things to order......
Mike Sal
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I saw that also. I'm an NOT sure, but I think it is from a simplex sportsman. I wonder if that type was also used on the simplex scooter that they made in the late 50's. Mike, if you talk with Wayne, ask him.
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Does anyone else have frames in which the shaft is welded to the frame? Mine is not just tacked in place, but has a full length weld on boths sides of the shaft (to the motor mount plate). It's a factory weld.
Now I'll have to weld up the shaft & file it down by hand.
Mike Sal
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Mike, my 53 and 54 both have bolt in shafts, but the 49 has a welded in one. I wonder why they changed back and forth. It seems to me it would have been easier for the factory to just weld them in, but for maintainence, bolt in wins hands down.
Rick
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Mine has the nut & bolt also. I was really confused after removing the bolt & not being able to remove the shaft. They had to have installed the bolt first, then welded it before painting. Seemed kinda silly to belt & suspender it. I wonder if maybe the welded ones were a salvage operation on the frame....maybe the hole the shaft goes threw was accidently drilled oversize & they had to weld the shaft to keep proper location.
Mike Sal
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Mike, that would certainly be interesting. Do you think you could grind the weld out, or would it cause too much damage?
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I was hoping I could cut the welds, but when I turned the frame over to get a better look, I see that it is welded on both sides of the shaft & the welds are about 4 inches long. Way too much trouble to cut it out.
Mike Sal
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Did someone say plasma cutter? LOL!! I wish I had one sometimes.
Rick
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Ya, a plasma cutter is definetly on my wish list of toys. I've heard the harbor freight cheapy ones aren't that bad. If a guy used one all the time, it would pay to have a name brand, but for me it would only be an occaisional use toy.
Mike Sal
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Mike, 20 years ago I bought an HF mig welder. It lasted about 2 hours and burned up. I returned it, bought a Lincoln mig and have never looked back. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for.
Rick
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My '48 has a bolted on kick start shaft.(u-bolts). In talking with Gary Wollard back then and as if to satisfy his own curiousity he asked me if mine was bolted on or welded on.
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Ya, the general rule is that if it has an electrical cord, don't buy it at HF. When dad had to go into a wheelchair, I re-habbed their old house so he could get around. I needed to drill some holes into the concrete floor of the front porch to mount a hand rail, so I picked up a hammer drill from HF, knowing that I'd be lucky if it survived the drilling of 8 holes. In fact, it did make all 8 holes......but.....the trigger malfunctioned it won't shut off. the only way to use it is to plug it in and then unplug it after drilling a hole.
There are some things that HF quality is good enough, but others things that you're just throwing your money away.
Kartjockey, it sounds like we're not the first to discover the randomness of the kick starter shaft welding. In one of the manuals, it shows that bolt on kick starter like your bike has.
Mike Sal
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The u bolt kick starters were the first type used. I believe they did this because they sold a kit to retro fit some of the earlier models.
Rick
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Those hf wire wheels sure are dangerous they should be sold as wire throwers !
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Installed the new bushing in the kick starter tonight. Hopefully in the picture you can see the old bushing sticking out of the kicker after I sawed a slot into it with a hacksaw blade. I then cut half of the length of the bushing away so I could use it as an alignment tool. I took an old piece of 1/2 inch water pipe & turned down a section of it to fit into the new bushing & long enough to stick into the old bushing too. I was all set to push the new bushing in with the hydraulic press when I noticed that the new bushing isn't a very tight fit into the kicker. I was able to tap it in with very little pressure (as the new bushing went in, it pushed the old bushing out the back side).
Mike Sal
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If you are worried about it moving on you Loctite 640 and prep will make that worry go away.
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that's exactly what I did. I have access to all kinds of locktite products here at work.
Mike Sal
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!/4 inch die grinder with 3 inch "whizz wheel " does wonders for fast weld removal , It's my best freind in frame work ,, I uaually discard the shaft and buzz another up in a lathe ,,, few drops of oil keeps it alive. I now dont use circlip but a cotter pin so kickstarter won't get lost , small practical improvement
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does anyone know if Wayne has the kickstart addon kit for a 1947 model H
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I'm pretty sure he does. I know for sure he has the shaft that bolts to the frame.
Mike Sal
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I just found some pics I had taken back when I was fixing up the kick starter. As some of you have noticed, the factory made one of the holes really big for one of the pivot pins. I assume for adequate clearance on the return stroke to clear the pinion. Some of you have closed this gap up by using oversize pins or bushings. I chose to re- use the original pins and make a bushing instead. The hole in the kicker measured .547 & the pins measure .312. I used an 11/32 bit for the hole and a snug slide fit for the o.d. & then welded it back together. It interacts very well with the pinion now (before the first few teeth didn't mesh well with the pinion & would eventually ruin it (one side was worn....since I've got the Phelon magneto, I just had to flip the pinion to get the better side exposed.
Mike Sal
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My search for kick start did not bring this up. This should help me some.
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Mike ,
I did basically the same thing . I used a brass bushing and replaced the original pins ( they were well worn ) with 5/16" rivets , if I recall correctly . I am using a slip ( speed ) nut to hold the rivets , temporarily .
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Holy cow, I found out what happens when you have your foot too far forward on the kick start lever. The quarter gear catches you rignt in the knot of your ankle.....ouch. I bonked it yesterday & then again today....ouch again.
Watch where you put your foot on these things! At least if you have big feet (size 13).
Mike Sal
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Don't you have a rubber cover for that kick lever , Mike ? ;)
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The part covered in rubber isn't the part that cracks you in the ankle bone!!! It's that quarter gear that gets you!
Mike Sal
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A good pair of leather boots helps this problem. 8)
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I realized that after I had posted .
I guess you'll be centering the lever under your foot from now on ?
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That reminds me, I still have a dent in my shin from starting my Simplex 51 years ago.
Don't remember what I hit, but I do remember it hurt. A LOT!!!!!!