General Category => Other Things Simplex => Topic started by: Mike Sal on February 22, 2012, 03:29:54 PM
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My bike didn't have a title. I've got a notorized bill of sale & thought it wouldn't be much hassle to get one.......
The state of Illinois wants a notorized appraisal (there's nobody in this neck of the woods that will provide this service for me) as well as a bond.
I thought I'd use one of those title services, as some of the model T guys said they had luck with them. First I started to try International Title Service, in Nevada. I couldn't get anybody to answer the phone....then found a boatload of complaints about them on youtube.
Then I tried Clark County Liens, who did answer the phone, but isn't sure if Nevada will issue a title to a vehicle with such a short VIN number. He's going to call me back in a few days after he checks it out. Cost would be $400.00 WOW......
Maybe I'd be better off just going thru Illinois......if I can find somebody to give me an appraisal......I'm sure I'll have to stick the bike back together before they can do that......It's always something......
How have the rest of you handled lost titles?
Mike Sal
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I don't know if others have done it but would a Mechanics Lien work if you don't know the official previous name/prior owner? Also, are we sure that ALL of the Servi-Cycles had registrations/were "titled" before? If it didn't maybe it's just filing for a new title.
What did they want for the Bond? The appraisal (take the trip to Portland - somebody there should be able to do that) and Bond may be easier.
Just a couple of thoughts, I could be and often am wrong but then I'm not getting paid for it.. :)
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In Illinois you can apply for a Bonded Title. What you need is an appraisal of the Bike and your Insurance Carrier can sell you a bond for the appraised value. You then can apply for a Bonded Title. This title will let you License the bike, but you can't sell the bike for at least 3 years. The reasoning is that if anyone would make claim to the bike within the 3 years your bond would be forfeited to the claimant. If no one makes claim, you will be issued a clear title after the 3 years. Yes it's a pain , but you can receive a title and be able to license your bike. Usually the bond will be between 10 and 25 cents on the dollar. witch you will get most back at the end of the period. Stop by your local Drivers license facility and ask for information on The Bonded title. In Illinois nothing is easy, but I have found this is less painful. Any Dealer with a letterhead can give you an appraisal. Good luck
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Thanks for the advise. Ya, I'm going to talk to my insurance guy tomorrow about a bond. We have one motorcycle dealer in our county & he refused to consider doing an appraisal for me (I just don't understand....it's free money....). I'm going to call the harley dealer (in the next town over....he collects antique bikes) to see if he can offer an appraisal. I'll probably have to load the bike up & take it the 45 miles over there for him to see it.
No worries about selling the bike.....that'll be my heirs problem.
Mike Sal
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Well after some frustration, the ball is starting to roll a little. Found an auctioneer who will do the appraisal, and the lady at the insurance company is doing some homework on issueing a bond (she's never done one before.....). Hopefully things will keep going in a positive direction.
Mike Sal
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Yeah it can be a hassle just finding out what to do. But we are fortunate in Shawnee Oklahoma we have a lady that will do a title 42 for 150.00 and about a 4 week wait. I had my Denpr side car rig that had never had a title done. and will do my simplex the same way in about a month.
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what kind of side car bike do you have? Several guys have used the chinese versions to convert to German ww2 (bmw fakes). I spent a lot of time riding in one this past weekend (ya, I was one of the bad guys).
Mike Sal
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mike,
Its a Dnepr MT-16 650cc in shiny camo. It was bought as a kit and when they couldnt get it to run they left it out side. so had some rust it shouldnt have had. It had 12 kilometers on it when I got it. my brother got it going for me he is the mechanic and I am the machinist. Its as cool as my Simplex still need to put belts on it, maybe on spring break. So what do you drive when you are a bad guy? ;D
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Got bad news yesterday. I want to be able to ride my Simplex on the road . So I need a title in Michigan, they are classifing it as a motorcycle. I do not have a regestration or a title . to get a title I need to get it inspected , The motorcycle has to be safe and road worthy. That means that I need to install a front brake, turn signals, generator, high and low beam headlight. Some of the up grades I do not want to do but I will . The bike will not be orignal but it is better than having it up in the attic of the garage collecting dust. Biggest problem that I think I will run into is a generator and how to hook to up. I already bought a Honda GC160 and do not want to spend the money again for a motor with a generating system already part of the engine. If anyone has any sugestions please let me know. Bill Marcum
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Bill, can't you register it as an antique vehicle? There a lot of guys in Michigan who've put together Model T's from parts (almost every thing will interechange) & have to get titles for them......they don't have to modernize them. If you want, I'll see if any of the michigan guys can offer some advise & will hook you up with their contact info if you want. Just let me know.
Mike Sal
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Bill, I seem to remember BJM telling me he put a charging coil on his GC. Not sure how it was done.
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Originality not being a concern would one of the newer round LED Headlights and a Tail light be a viable option? And allow for a much smaller concern about generating power.
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Just talked to BJM , very nice guy with a lot of the information I needed to put the Honda GC160 motor in my bike ,Mounting plate and some brackets , he has a guy that can flow jet them out. He also has some information, about the need to have the engine produce some electricty to run the lights. Talking with him was a great releif and help, as is this Simplex Site . When I get the information I will pass it on to the web site if it is alright with BJM. Yes a seal beam headlight is in the future for this Simplex and I do not want a Antiuqe Title for my bike because I want to ride it when ever I want to, not just to events or parades. Thanks for the help every one. Things are starting to take shape . Bill Marcum
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Yipee, got my appraisal back today. Tomorrow I'll swing back by the insurance office & from there the DMV with a bond to cover the title. Wish me luck!
Mike Sal
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After 4 trips to the friendly NYS DMV, I have my 1953 registered! It was a little bit of a hassle, as every time I went back they wanted something different. I have it registered as a motorcycle, not what I really wanted, but, hey, beggars can't be choosers! I would have liked it to be registered as a class B moped, therefore no motorcycle license would have been required.
I needed insurance, bill of sale from previous owner, picture of engine or frame number, and documentation of weight.
Good luck to you other guys!
Rick
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I'm still waiting for my insurance bond to come back. I dropped it off last week & they said it would take about a week. Once I have that, it's back to the DMV to apply for the title & registration.
Mike Sal
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In Texas, our auto registeration is handled through the office of the county Tax Accessor/Collector. There is a form that this office provides for obtaining a motor vehicle title. The form is partially filled out by a law enforcement officer who runs the VIN number of the vehicle and determines that there is not a recorded title nor outstanding fines. The tax accessor then inspects the vehicle, makes a picture of the serial number and completes the remainder of the one-page form. I believe the total cost is $2.00 and you receive the title within a week. I have done this with Bultaco motorcycles ....most of which were never titled, but now must be if ridden off road on federal land. This process is called a tax-title-hearing. I plan to do this with the 52 Simplex
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Maybe I should have one of my friends in Texas register my bikes for me. It's definitely not that easy (or cheap) in California.
Vince
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I picked up forms at Illinois dmv the other day for the bonded title ,interesting to see how it goes for Mike as I will have to do exactly the same thing. On a side note this has to be the best march weather ever recorded in central Illinois ,unbelievable !
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All winter long when it was dry, I couldn't get a contractor out here to pour my concrete for the building. Now that it's finally done & the weather is great, it rains every other day......I've got almost all the lumber pre-cut & ready to go, but need a few dry days. I've been working till dark every evening in a t-shirt.....pretty nice for March. We hit 83 today & supposed to be the same tomorrow.
After I put the lumber project up for the evening, I go over to the shop to tinker with the Simplex parts. finished the clutch tonight & painted some small parts.
I'll let you know how the title thing goes. I'm going to call the insurance company tomorrow to see what the status is.
Mike Sal
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Went insurance broker and insured my 54 as an add on with my 82 harley. Went the nys dmv with weight slip, MV 82, DFT 802, MV 51B and check book. Came home with nontransferable registration and a plate. Should get a transferable registation in 4 to 6 weeks " IF" Albany says everything is alright. Tom
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Got the call from the insurance guy that my title bond arrived today & I picked it up on my way to the powder coating shop. Wound up with a $2100 bond which cost me 50 bucks. Next step is to hit the DMV tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed for me. All of the gals at our local branch are fairly new & I'm sure will need some hand holding.
Mike Sal
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30 minutes with the gal at the dmv & my documents, and my money (95 for title application, 38 for the plate, and 25 for taxes) are on their way to Springfield, IL. I think this was the first bonded title application she ever worked on, so wish me luck. She said it could be 6 to 8 weeks before the title & plate shows up.
Once you get your bond document from the insurance company, it is a 2 page document of which you have to sign w/ a notary. These goes with the rest of the documents (the 3 from the State, the notarized bill of sale, & the appraisal) along with your 2 checks to the state.
Let's hope ole Abe is smilin' down at me on this....
Mike Sal
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One of the few nice things about dealing with New York State is they give you plates on the spot and then figure out if it's legal!
Rick
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I figured Illinois would pile up the paper work, they always do.
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I need to start this process rolling here pretty soon. One thing mentioned by Mike that bothers me is the notorized Bill of sale. I don't have anything.
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I took some advise from one of the model T guys & had a buddy "sell" me the bike (after I went on line with the illlinois secretary-o-state's website to see if the frame or motor number were not in their system). I didn't have a notorized b.o.s. from the guy I bought it from either & I wasn't going to make a 3 hour drive back to get one from him either.
Mike Sal
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Sounds like good advice,did your buddy have to sign in front of the notary
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Depends on how well you know the notary. My wife works for an attorney & she & her co-worker are both notarys, so that part was no problem for me.
Mike Sal
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Mike, I was just on the sec. Of state site and ran the frame no. Says last title issuance1984. And title is recorded as junked wonder what this could mean for me.
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Jeremy, this could represent a problem. I think illinois is a bugger when it comes to resurrecting a "junked" vehicle. I'd go by the dmv & feel them out (maybe they can go on the system & see info you can't). If they give you the thumbs down, you're looking at applying for a new title for a bike that "doesn't have a vin number" (wink wink).
My bike wasn't in the system at all, even though I got it in springfield.
Mike Sal
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Well, chalk another one up for the Illinois DMV.....they returned my title application due to "Specific problems". They want a law enforcement officer to verify the VIN number (this was never mentioned in any of the forms they gave me at the local DMV, or was mentioned when I called the state department.
Also, they don't like the auctioneer that did my appraisal.....they want someone with a dealer's license. This was the hardest thing to come up with......there just aren't any appraisers in this neck of the woods.....
Arghhh.....
Mike SaL
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Anyone on here from Oklahoma , I heard from an antique car guy that in the past he has acquired Oklahoma titles and then transferred them to avoid the dreaded Illinois dmv
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Hi not related to this topic. But I can't get the registry to open. What am I doing wrong? Grandpajoe
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Hi not related to this topic. But I can't get the registry to open. What am I doing wrong? Grandpajoe
If you are trying to reply to it, you can't. It is a locked thread that can only be posted to by Mike Sal, and the Admin. If you are trying to read it, just click on the bottom, and it should download to your computer, and then open it.
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Hi,
Im from Oklahoma and you can get a tiltle 42 here if title has been lost or even never titled as long as it has a vin number. I just had a lady do it for me on a Dnepr that had 7 kilometers on it made in 1995 and never had a tag mounting plate on it. It cost $150.00. You can do it yourself but you are money ahead to have it done by one of the people that specialize in this. Also got a title on a 42 harley bobber that my brother built. Have not done my simplex yet, want to get the lights on it and kickstart.
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In Illinois my vin # pops up as salvage title , in Illinois I may be screwed , I do have a friend in Oklahoma that may help me with an address, do they require notorized Bill of sale?
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seeing this title it just made me think.
my 1947 has no frame Number and i have no title
any idea how i can reg this in NY
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seeing this title it just made me think.
my 1947 has no frame Number and i have no title
any idea how i can reg this in NY
I used the engine number as the vin. NY DMV wanted a picture of the engine number, something with the weight on it, and money.
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oh ok. yea that makes sence... thanks
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Guess who had his title application returned AGAIN by the state of Illinois????? This time they say I need 4 photos of the bike (front, back, both sides). Now why in the world didn't they tell me that the last time the returned my application......
I think somebody is trying to justify their jobs by making a career out of every application they handle......(I had heard that the secretary of state department was going to have some cut backs because the state is broke).
Mike Sal
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I used Broadway title company for an old triumph i put together, it cost about 120$ about 15 years ago but they were fast and legal. I think they were in Georgia. The way it worked was that state didnt use titles and i think you just send all info on the bike, they run it ti see if its in stolen bike data base. You basically are sighning over the bike to them. They register it in their state then you but it from them ( thats is inclused in the 120$) then you take their paperwork to your state, they in turn issue you a title.
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I lived in Georgia all through the '80s. They didn't use titles on vehicles older than 25 years. I don't know how it is now. I had a '55 chevy with a 'rebuilt' title of 1972. The guy said he used to own one and we walked out to my car and he said , 'that's a '55 alright " and we went back inside and that was it! It was that easy.
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I thought out using one of the title services, but a lot of them have turned into bad deals. I almost sent a 250 dollar check to an outfit in Nevada (that had a good reputation 10 years ago), but found out the original guy handed the business to his crooked son who's been ripping people off. So.....I thought I'd take my chances with the state......but that's not been working out too good either......
Mike Sal
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After two rejections, my application which was sent off to the state of Illinois way back in March was finally rewarded yesterday when a license plate & registration showed up in my mailbox. Hopefully, a title will also show up soon.
I'm glad I wasn't in a hurry......
Mike Sal
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After two rejections, my application which was sent off to the state of Illinois way back in March was finally rewarded yesterday when a license plate & registration showed up in my mailbox. Hopefully, a title will also show up soon.
I'm glad I wasn't in a hurry......
Mike Sal
Mike, Tom and I expect to be riding with you in Portland! If we are feeling our oats, we can go race on the road next to the fairgrounds!! LOL
Mike, is your bike running yet?
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Congratulations Mike, Isn't Illinois a great state? If you applied for a Bonded Title, you can register and ride your bike now but you probably won't get your title until the bond period is up.
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I had forgotten about the bond period....your probably right. I'll have to check on that.....If I remember correctly, it'll be 2 years before the bond expires. At least I've got a registration & plate now so I can get some insurance on it.
Rick, I don't have it running yet, as I was going to pull the motor so I can pin the piston rings. I came down with a bad head cold this weekend, so was only able to play in the shop a little bit today. I did get an adapter bracket made to fit the new licence plate & original holder bracket (just a strip of steel with a couple bends in it & 4 holes). I put a piece of sticky backed foam rubber on the back of the plate to keep it from rubbing the paint on the back fender.
I've also been working on polishing up the magneto cover. There were a few spots of corrosion which have left behind ruff textered areas that I need to bump out so I can sand them down, but that's a lot of work & I'm feelin lazy. I wish reproductions were available.
Mike Sal
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Congrats on getting through the mud hole , Mike . :)
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You are right Rick. Looking forward to seeing as many web rides as possible!
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Yipee.....it's a festivas miracle!!! I now have in my hands a new clear Illinois title for my Simplex!!! Apparantly I didn't have to wait for the bond to expire.
I hope I get some time to work on it this weekend. I've got the gaskets for pulling the motor down to work on the piston. I've got to solder on new sparkplug wires onto the coil too.
Mike Sal
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Excellent , Mike .
I'll have to go through a similar ordeal when I apply for a title for my bike . I recall having one , 48 years ago . That was then and I've long since misplaced it . I never had it put in my name , so that may be something else to deal with .
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This may help for the Michigan guys. I am going to the SOS soon and will be trying this. Here is a link to some guys who have had luck with other cycles.
http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31910 (ftp://http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31910)
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The process of obtaining a certified legal Michigan state title , from start to finish for a 'never been titled or registered' bike ( My 1989 Yamaha XT350 ) , was easier than I had anticipated . It took 6 days . That included getting a TR54 form from the Secretary of States office ; having a Michigan State Trooper inspect the bike and complete the TR54 ; returning to the Secretary of States office and applying and waiting for the actual title to arrive in the snail box ( this part took 5 days ) .
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Since I could not find anyone to give me an appraisal, I was able to call my insurance company. They issued a surety bond for the Simplex. It cost $100. I then took it with the bill of sale to the Michigan SOS and applied for a title. I should see it in a couple weeks. :o
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I hate you guys......
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I have a nice crisp green Michigan title in hand for my bike! This gives me the green light to pour even more stupid money into it. It took about 6 weeks for it to come but I am free and clear to do what I please with it. Yesssssss
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Excellent . :)
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Good news for a fustrated Simplex owner. After trying to get it apprased with no one ( about 20 phone calls to dealers and 5 personal visits to dealers ) wanting to appraise it. CJ's Cycle & Marine of Ypsilanti, Michigan 734-485-1482 did i for me. Got my Simplex apprased and went to the Michigan SOS Thursday and they ran some kind of search . Today I returned to the Michigan SOS and they let me apply for a title. Should be in the mail in about 2 weeks. With the hard part done now I am ready to start again on my project again. Bill Marcum 8)
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Bill ,
Congratulations .
Way to be patient . Not that you had any choice ... ;)
I'm curious . What did you have them appraise exactly ? A roller with a motor in it or ???
Did they give a dollar figure or was it a safety appraisal ?
What form did the SOS give you to have the appraisers fill out ? Does the form have an ID# ?
I'm sorry about asking so many questions , but I'll have to go through the same hoopla when I get back to Michigan this Spring . Hopefully , I can get a title for my bike .
I wonder if owning the bike for some 48 years will help .
Thanks in Advance . :)
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Getting the appraisal was the hardest part of the whole deal for me. By the time the state rejected my first appraisal (from an auction company), I had already dismantled the bike. It was halfway put together by the time I found a Polaris dealer that would give me an appraisal. They were very understanding & had no problem fixing me up.
Mike Sal
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In Michigan, an appraisal is not needed. You can contact your insurance company and ask them for a surety bond.
You explain that you can not find an appraisal. I paid $100 for the bond. I told them it was worth $1500 so they issue a bond for $3000. You then take the bond to the SOS and get a title. It takes 6 weeks going this route. Its all done by hand.
Info from the SOS
http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-48268-29806--F,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-48268-29806--F,00.html)
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Hey fellow Simplex riders, Good news today , go my Michigan title in the mail. It is a good feeling to have it. Time to get started again on gettig her road worthy. Bill Marcum 8) ;D :D :) ;)
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Congratulations. Glad to here hear that hit a wall on getting mine title done. Can't find my receipt for it and no bill of sale so I can't prove I own it. So if I can figure something out it sounds somewhat easy to get it done here. Bu congratulations again.
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Congratulations Bill . :)
One more legal owner . ;)
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Update on my title issue. Found where I used paypal to do the sale told them on the phone that I had no bill of sale. I have to take off work early to drive a hundred miles to a police station that has a auto theft division so they can inspect it and the first thing they ask for is a bill of sale. Well a hour or so later I have the form that now has to go to the courthouse within 30 days or its null in void. Planning on trying to get there Friday I hope. That will be just step two of how many who knows.
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Good luck Reese!
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Good luck. It only took me 8 months to get mine titled....
Mike Sal
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Best of luck , Reese .
It only took me about a week to gain clear fresh Michigan title for the XT350 that I built on a frame that had never even been registered , let alone titled .
I have to wonder why some states are so bond up in red tape . Job security , maybe ???
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I'm afraid I'm gonna be in the same boat, I traded for mine over 20 yrs ago, and didn't get a bill of sale either. I know the guy, so I might be able to look him up, but wondering if it is gonna be worth all the hassle.
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Most DMVs only keep records for approx. 7 years so, if the bike/moped hasn't had a license plate/tabs on it for 7 years or more, you will need to fill out the form applying for title and supply pictures of both sides of vehicle and a explaination of how you came into possession of said bike. (bought at garage sale, etc...) Usually, depending on the particular state, bonding isn't required for vehicles under $2000 value and title will be mailed. When the forms are delivered to DMV with application for title and the pictures, the plates/tabs are issued after fees are paid. If for some reason they deny issueing title, a letter is sent to you asking that you surrender the license plate that was issued and more steps need to be taken. (DOT inspection) Calling it a moped makes things easier but you just have to "lie" a little on engine size and top speed. (less than 2 H.P. and 30mph technically) Mine was a 1948 so no VIN so I just used the engine number. I have done this process at least a dozen times and only once did I get a letter asking for more proof of "roadworthiness" which was taken care of by a local cop who wrote up a letter saying the bike met his standards for street use.