Simplex 5 speed build

[ndian22]

Well guys I've flip flipped yet again after receiving some expert advice on utilizing electrics properly for wheeled vehicles from a professional with many years experience designing and building dc transports commercially. He actually liked my proposed solution but thought it too complex considering both time and cash expense weighed against the much simpler solution of going to an 1800 watt dc brushless with a 3 way controller with forward, neutral and reverse settings. Frame layout/design is much simplified and all my original goals satisfied for less money. I was able to change and cancel my parts orders before they shipped out and replaced with the 3 way controller and upgraded 48 volt battery pack all of which will provide not only a powerful reverse (with appropriate 54 t final sprocket and 12 t motor sprocket) & the 23" diameter sidecar wheel. and the ability to propel both rig & load at up to 20 mph in forward utilizing just the electric drive. Fully charged the single battery pack should provide travel distance of 15 miles at  the stately speed of 10mph.
The more powerful setup, I've been assured, will provide more reverse grunt than that of the go cart reduction setup I'd originally planned. I'm hopeful!

I'm a complete novice when it comes to utilizing electric power on bikes and I'm opting to follow the advice of someone who has designed and built more commercial electric vehicles than I've ever seen. I'm grateful for his assistence

Rick C.

[pd]

This is all new to me , too , Rick .

I find it pretty interesting . I try to picture it , but , I think I'm still in black and white mode . LOL

Pete .

[ndian22]

Pete as soon as the drive components come in I'll do a basic mock up of frame, wheel/tire, suspension,drive train & dc motor setup photo and that should be a big help in visualization of my design.

Rick C.

[ndian22]

I'd add to an earlier post that forward rig speed (20mph) isn't important because once the rig frames geometry is properly tuned in for road use & powered forward solely under bike engine power, this correct alignment will fight any attempt of the electric drive on the side wheel to move the bike at anything more than a fast walk which is better than pushing by hand in an emergency or to get it out of the way without starting the bike at home etc. Reverse is the primary function and slow forward positioning as well...I'd suppose that an extremely slow ride won't be too strenuous for the operator, but I'll not expect much use of the electric drive in forward. I'd also think tire wear would be extreme.

Rick C.

[ndian22]

Really rough mock up of frame & suspension components.

I've already decided my original dimensions will need altering a bit, although the component layout is about right. Much bracing, plates and welding required...just normal stuff on the frame. Axle plate extension/ dc motor mount will locate the axle approximately 8" above the frame height to keep the center of gravity as low as possible & still maintain 4" ground clearance minimum. The dc motor will rebound with the torsion axle lever's compression and release cycle, being mounted on that lever instead of being frame mounted.

The two half length leaf springs support the rear of the car body. The front of the body may just pivot with the action of the rear suspension, yet to be decided.

Track width 48", car ground clearance 4", car body width 28", car height 24", & car length 80". maximum rig weight unloaded 175 lbs
I've done quite a bit of research on both contemporary and antique sidecar rigs to come up with these dimensions.

The early rigs were powered with around 10 hp or less & a single speed & 3 speed transmission was a latter addition to assist... so I'm pretty sure my little 125 cc 5 speed will power this relatively lightweight rig adequately though I may have to drop the final drive ratio some.

Rick C.

Rick C.

[ndian22]

Several weeks latter & more than a few trial fit ups with torsion axle and the dc motor & the major change is to just fit the motor on the frame & control the chain with a spring loaded idler & keep it simple. The torsion axle & it's 10" axle extension constructed of 3/4"x3" aluminum bar stock is extremely robust!

Rick C.

[ndian22]

Pics

[pd]

Lookin' good , Rick .

Pete .

[ndian22]

I'm testing my fat tire e bike constructed of spare parts & a discarded bare frame. Hub motor kit is new. Thought it an introduction to electrics along with the side car motor I bought. This is an all steel build and heavy, but the 1,200 watt 48 volt brushless motor powers it well, quick but not fast. It is fun.

I'm confident the sidecar rig will reverse well, though I'm doubtful of any real utility powering forward other than short maneuvering & parking.

Rick C.

[pd]

You don't want to be too fast on the beach anyway , Rick .

It does look like a fun bike .

Pete .

[ndian22]

Thanks Pete I'm thinking that I'll eventually put the 3 hp Lifan I have on this one & all wheel/hybrid the heck out of it! I've always thought these fat things ugly, they have a cartoon character about them, and still do but they really ride nice.

Rick C.

[pd]

Agreed on the cartoonishness . But , what ever 'floats' your bike , so to speak . LOL

I wondered why you hadn't tried a rear hub motor along with the front . Maybe the battery pack would be too much ?
The Lifan sounds like it might round out the power package and add some distance , if needed .

Pete .

[ndian22]

Yes Pete the dual electric is pretty cool but the reality is a small gas motor is a more economical way to go, given I have the engine and only need a $100. cvt to go hybrid. & end up  with a 3hp gain & an extra 100 miles of range on a bit more than a gallon of gas. Refuel on the road in minutes with gas compared to hours on each battery recharge. I can buy 4 engines for the price of 1 quality lipo pack replacement as well. I got a heck of a close out deal on 20 amp hour 12v. batteries @ .60 per amp hour, so $48. per 48 volt pack...these are new sealed lead cells & I bought enough to build three battery packs. They aren't light at 44 lbs. per pack, but a no brainer compared to typical lead packs at $160. per 48 v. pack & triple that price for lipo 20 amp/48 v. packs with crap for guarantees.

Rick C.

[ndian22]

I'm waiting on the machine shop for some custom side car parts. Since I sold my shop & the new owners recent passing I'm relegated to waiting for parts...which I'm not really good at. What goes around comes around it seems, small jobs have no sense of commercial urgency.

Fat e bike gets some fabrication time this week and next as I modify the frame to mount the 3 hp Lifan 4 stroke & CVT. All wheel drive, tri-power gas & electric fat tire buggy bike. Absolutely no thought or effort to make this pigs ear into a purse; just function, safely and dependably.

For those interested in my results with the upgrade, of sorts, in batteries. The 48 volt lead cell 5 amp batteries were swapped to 20 amp/48 volt and I've registered two rides over 25 miles with power to spare. GPS average speed on the last one was 12 mph. Twenty five mph seems about top speed on flats, no pedal assist. I'm happy with the lead cells initial performance...long term? The price made my decision easy, for my use, but this isn't a shot at lipo technology and it's very real benefits; just my reality. I'll be using the same lead packs to power the Simplex sidecar as well, though I'm thinking that two packs wired parallel & series gives both the power and extra weight I'm looking for with the side car.

Rick C.




Rick C.

[pd]

I'm not a good waiter , either , Rick .
Ironically , I'm one of the best at wasting time . LOL

The "All wheel drive, tri-power gas & electric fat tire buggy bike" sounds like a fun machine .
That might just be the only 'silk' needed .

I think 25 MPH is doing pretty good for a home brew E bike . There's a lot of 50cc mopeds that can't honestly make that claim .

Pete .