General Category => Off Topic => Topic started by: Carbineone1964 on September 28, 2024, 05:27:57 PM
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Well with some kind help here from I think we have determined this to be a 1951 Safti Cycle made in Wisconsin..I ended up coming here as I was told it was Simplex..Well obviously the fella was wrong on that. I seen it at a yard sale and really liked it and I love tinkering with these kind of projects..
Some may think I am nuts to get it up and running. But I am going to.. :) It will never be all original original. I could likely never find the parts to to that anyway..I have some ideas on rims and such from a Moped..I will make the bottom sections of the front forks in the Lathe. Looking at photos I think I have a decent idea of how they are setup..Looks pretty simple.
The Motor I have sitting in the frame is a Briggs Y kick start that I already had here.. I am unsure of the HP as it does not seem to say anywhere what it is..I think maybe a 2HP..If someone knows how to tell that would be great. I have had the motor running good a few years ago. I need to clean things up and start it again.. Problem is the Bendix/Clutch on the flywheel is getting worn. Hopefully those can still be found. If anyone knows a source let me know.. But the Briggs Kick start is the closet I will ever come to original. They did use a very similar Kick Start Brigs on these originally.. I am not sure if it is 2HP if that will be sufficient or not..But we will see..It will just be a putt around/display piece occasionally anyway..
I do have doubts that the old Briggs Y model will have sufficient power..Let me know what you think..
I should have kept my 100.00 and left it where it was..But I always see potential in stuff that drives me..I know I can make something atleast I will be proud of.
I think I can make cool little ride out of it..Any help or input on ideas and direction are sure appreciated. First pic is my project of course..Second is one that is very close to my example..
Edit
I was reading some on the Y model Briggs..I never realized they were a mighty 1/2 HP..LOL That is not going to work..I will come up with some solution though..Maybe I could adapt the kick starter to a 3HP or 5HP Briggs or something..
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Welcome Bruce . :)
Looks like the start of a fun project .
It sure can't hurt to ask about whatever .
Please , keep us posted on your progress . We love a good build story . ;)
Pete . :)
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Thanks
I think it will a fun one..I am retired and get bored easily now..So I like to do more of this kind of stuff..
I am leaning towards using a modern engine like a Honda GS160..And either trying to make my own kick Start setup, or inquire if member Wayne still makes his conversion kick starter for the Honda..Does anyone know?
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Wayne's kick start setup is for the Honda GX series of motors and all the clones out there. The GS/GC series takes custom work, but the parts from Wayne, the pinion gear and the kick starter work well.
Check out this thread. I put a Honda GC190 in a stretched Simplex, with a kick starter.
https://simplexservi-cycle.com/index.php?topic=1375.0
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I have this kick start lever from the Briggs and the gear..I am starting to lean towards using it and putting the small gear on the Honda..If I cannot figure a good way to get a ratcheting type nendix on..I am going to keep it simple..Just attach the small pinion gear to the Honda flywheel. And make a bracket to mount the kicker. I would have no automatic return doing the doing..But I could put a spring that pull the kicker down and hold it down as it is running..Then when stopped I can just manually pull the kicker lever back up..
I dug out some old wheels I am likely going to use for this project..They are off a old early 1950s Honda, Dream or Cub..Cannot remember for sure..I will post a pic of those mocked up later today..And you may get a good chuckle..But I think they will work..There is no way this could ever be brought to original again. So I am going to do what I can with it..
Pic of the starter kicker I am thinking of adapting..I wish I could find a source for a original Bendix for the old Briggs kickstarter as this one shot..Anyone know where one of those NOS or used might be sourced from.
Thanks
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Right or wrong here are the Honda wheels sorta mocked up..I think they are going to work well.. I have blocks under everything to determine the stance and such..I am going to lower the rear axle about a 1.5 inches..Locating the axle holes in the frame right about in the center..The original axle holes are just a little high in the frame right now for the tire diameter.. The old motor is just in there for balance of course..
Though not original, I think the real motorcycle wheels are going to add to the rideability of this..Having both front and rear fully functioning brakes, and sturdy Rims, and good quality tires are going to be a tremendous update..I wish it could be all original, but that of course is not happening..
On a unimportant side note. I think this is actually a 1951 Airman model, not a Commando..The frame is serialized and dated 1951 also..Make no difference really..It is what it will become now..
Hope I do not bore anyone with this stuff..LOL
Pic of the direction I am going..Thanks
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Looks good Bruce. Any idea what the difference was between a Airman and a Commando?
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Not sure..But heres a pic of a Airman, and a Commando..
I called Wayne and he thinks the Kick Starter should fit the upright GC160..I will read your thread..Maybe someone can confirm if they put a Waynes Kicker on that motor..
Photos I found of a Airman and Commando..The Airman sure looks to have a different engine setup..The only real difference than the way the Engine is set up..Is the luggage carrier on the rear..Frames look identical otherwise..Airman looks to have a remote kicker seperate behind the Engine also.
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Anyone care to take a guess how the front forks work? There is a obvious round insert on the bottom of the forks..Inside the bottom of the hollow tubes there is a reduced diameter about a couple inches long..My theory in the solid lower insert goes in from the top..And the reduced diameter is a stop for the forks from coming out when doing a jump or a wheelie,LOL. They maybe had a spring inside for a shock? Then a cap placed on the top of the tubes to retain it all..
Just a guess..If you have a better one. let me know.
Pic of the forks closeup.
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Bruce ,
Pretty sure you're right .
Your frame seems to match an Airman as the front motor 'bay' tubes are curved , unlike the straight tubes of the Commando , and the 'bay' size matches the bigger area of the Airman .
Pete . :)
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Well I accomplished a little the last couple days. Frame is sandblasted and painted.. I kinda almost went with a color other than black..But decided black it will be..I have a little body repair to do to the Gas Tank//I will paint that tommorow.. I am going with some acrylic urethane on that..I have a gallon that the paint store miss mixed when I painted my last car..They just gave it to me..So need to use it up..I think the color will great with the black frame. You will have to wait to see the color..I have some new tires and tubes on the way also.
I have the front forks mostly done..I have to make retaining caps/plugs for the top of the tubes..Going to work fine I think..
Pic of what I have so far..This is never going to be a show cycle. I have to do it on the cheap side or it would never get done..Any suggestions or anything go ahead and make them.. It will kinda be what I think they call a Rat type Bike,LOL
Pic
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Looks like same tank as a LaRay. They mount differently than most. uses a gas cap as Briggs did of that same era.
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Here's is a tank that I have. (Actually, had two of them but sold one) Gas neck measures 1 3/4" (1.758'). I found this NOS B&S gas cap.
I may have Safticycle tank decal.
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Thanks
Decal I would be interested in for sure.. I do not care if is not an Airman Decal..This is more less a custom job anyway. Originality is pretty much out the window on this one.. :)
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Hello
Not sure if all this is all that intersting.. But here is the direction I am kinda going with this..
The chrome on the donor wheels was not great..So they were blasted and self etching primer applied and painted..Same with the Handlebars. They were rough too, and needed the same treatment. Not going to be much bling to this and I do not even want that. I do have some chrome fenders coming in that should look the part and look really nice.
I have a little Lathe work to do on the forks and get them buttoned up..Nothing major just a half Hour work or so..
Have the Gasoline Tank mounted up also.
The new tires and tubes should be here tomorrow and will get them mounted..By the end of the week it might actually start to actually look like a Motorcycle,LOL
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Before painting anything, I would have mocked up the whole bike. You just know you are going to have to cut, drill and weld on that frame before it’s together.
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There is nothing really that will put together that is not easily disassembled if need be, if I have to do any welding on the frame. It can be easily touched up... Not building a show bike or anything close to one..Frame is far from pristine anyway..Lots of pitting in areas throughout. So touchup is not a issue at all,LOL.
But great advice in most cases. Just not really a issue with this build at all..Thanks
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I got the front forks done today and the new tires mounted.. The setup I used for the forks is going to give me around 2 inches of front suspension..Not much, but better than nothing..The fenders should arrive later this week and will see how they work out..Thanks
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Good work. I really like the looks of those bikes.
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Thanks....It is coming along to my satisfaction so far.. But I am easy to please,LOL I really like the lines and looks of the bugger myself..
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Went ahead an and bought a CC190 Honda engine today to power this..Hopefully it will have sufficient HP and work well for me..Probably going to use one of Waynes Kick Starts, and will surely have some questions on that.. Rick, I know you used one of his kick starts on a GC190..May pick your Brain some, as you said you had to do a little modification to use it on your engine..Thanks
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A GC190 engine can power one of these bikes to 50 mph, which is plenty for these old frames. It should be a fun ride.
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Probably 50 MPH would be be plenty fast..
All I really accomplished today was getting a kick stand on.. I am going to atleast have nice actual Motorcycle rims and actual MC drum brakes front and rear..
Tomorrow I will be running over to my buddys cycle shop and scrounge through the parts for a front brake handlebar perch, lever and cable and get the front brakes up and working..
The rear Brakes and Foot pegs will be the last two things as those setups are dependent on location, after the motor is in..
Will maybe mount the fenders tomorrow too depending how that goes..Covering the seat will be this weekends project hopefully..
I have a Graphics friend making me decals for the tank..I am just going with SaftiCycle decals like the ones above on the white Bike....I just like em better than the other styles..
Thanks
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Forgot a question on the Kick start that Wayne makes.. Does his kick starts mount right on the Honda GC190 Engine? Or does it come with a proprietary frame mount plate exclusively for the Simplex frames? In other words is the kicker frame or engine mounted?
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Wayne’s kit is frame mounted.
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Thanks
Cartjocky, that Laray is pretty cool..Where were those made at?
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This is from one of my old popular Mechanics magazines. 1946
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Wisconsin made too.. That front end resembles a Indian or Harley somewhat. Cool little Bike.
I am still confused on how Waynes kickstarter operates..There has to be a way the kicker disengages from the pinion gear so the kicker can return upward after the motor is running.. Wish someone had a video of one in operation.. I may be kinda slow and it is simpler than I think..But I am not getting the concept on how it actually works..
I am also considering trying a 175cc Motorcycle Carburetor on the GC190 Engine. I am certain I can adapt one to fit..Just not sure on how well it would work..Would be superior to running a choke cable type throttle.. For 30.00 it might be worth some experimenting..
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I bought this jackshaft today...It mounts right to the bottom of the engine using the bolt patter on the engine..Hopefully it will work good.. If it does it sure beats welding and drilling the frame..
https://www.bmikarts.com/Clutch-Mount-with-Jackshaft_p_1129.html
Photo of the motor demillled of the ugly and sitting in the frame..Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/F8E8xpy.jpeg)
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The fenders I took a chance on came today..They are going to look and work out fantastic.They are off of a 1970 Puch I think...Also finishing up the front brake lever and cable..
I was digging through my buddys junk boxes and found this really cool little lever that will be my choke lever on the Handle Bars...Looks to use a simple Bicycle Brake cable..Coming along..Sorry in a Senior moment I had the choke lever a brake lever opposite..You can see how this is going to go,LOL
(https://i.imgur.com/n7EJy5R.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Up7sKLD.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lrhUPuz.jpeg)
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The kick starter works just like a stock Simplex kick start. After the sector gear passes the pinion gear, it drops down so it can return without hitting the pinion gear. It really is a simple, ingenious design. Once you have it in your hands, it will be obvious.
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Thanks Rick
I think I get the concept now..
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Rick
When you did your GC190 build..Did you disable the Governor operation, or remove the the Governor at all?
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Rick
When you did your GC190 build..Did you disable the Governor operation, or remove the the Governor at all?
I can’t remember. I think I opened up the motor and took all the parts out. Or maybe that was on the GX motor conversion I did on the 3 wheel replica I built.
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Bruce ,
The front fender is / was normally mounted opposite from how you have it pictured .
And , you could leave the choke on the left side . Maybe flip it and mount it to the underside of the bar .
That's how it is on my Suzuki . ;)
Pete . :)
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Wow you fellas are early risers too.. :)
Yeah I have been setting the front fender in both ways to try to figure out how to best mount it. I am going to have to move brackets around and maybe even make some new ones.. The rear is a breeze to mount..The front is going to be more problematic though..The front one is going to take some fab work to get it done..
I have been doing some reading on Governor removal or delete..Seems it is a touchy subject no one wants to talk about for some reason....LOL
Thanks
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Did not accomplish alot today..Went to Ace Hardware and bought a simple on/off kill switch ignition...Hole was already there from the original ignition, so was not a big deal..
But rear fender is fully mounted..I will try to mount the front fender tomorrow..
(https://i.imgur.com/9Fq9gyB.jpeg)
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I removed all of the governors in kart motors. Less to cause internal problems. Then just thread the hole part way and bury a set screw in it. An 1/8" pipe plug is nice if applicable.
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So you removed it entirely? I ask because I thought I read it still needs the gear in place to supply oil slinging off the gear? Maybe I read it wrong or someone else was in error.. Thanks
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I didn't see the need for the gear to sling oil. That is the job of the dipper on the connecting rod.
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Thanks
Not much done today but did get the front fender completely installed..Worked out pretty well.
I have a rear sprocket and CVT clutch assembly coming this week.. Still have not got to the seat yet, and the friend that does decals for me has not called back yet.. I will probably have some questions when the CVT assembly gets here..
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OK I pulled the motor apart.. Ready to pull the Governor out..I think the theory some have is that the governor gear helps keep oil on the timing belt to carry it up to the cam..That does not really seem to make sense to me..I am sure even without the Governor gear..The belt still get plenty of oil on it to carry it to the camshaft..
Also dug through my junk boxes and found a throttle/Cable assembly that will work out great.. Need some new vintage looking grips now..
Other than that I think we wait for more parts to arrive hopefully by weeks end. may get the seat done in the waiting period hopefully.....Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/wrGzF4x.jpeg)
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Forgot..I did get the kickstand made today too..And dug up these old footpegs in my junk box too..
(https://i.imgur.com/SGDK4Gn.jpeg)
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Here is the beginning of my CVT setup.. Hopefully the jackshaft mount will be here tomorrow..
Also have the setups made for mounting the choke and throttle cable..
You can also see the old tractor style glass bowl sediment fuel assembly with shutoff.. shut off..I actually seen a pic of one with these on it.. And they look cool..LOL
(https://i.imgur.com/XE3ofv2.jpeg)
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My friend Mike got the decals done.. They are on..I like em anyway..They maybe could of been a little further forward..But I can live with it..
(https://i.imgur.com/fHabUEb.jpeg)
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Lookin' good , Bruce . ;)
Pete . :)
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Thanks for the kind comment Pete.
A question...Anyone see anything inherently wrong with my CVT and jackshaft setup so far? Speak up if you do,LOL
Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/YNtixEq.jpeg)
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Some things accomplished today..Motor is in, pic of the jackshaft, and the mounting plate and motor bolted in the frame.. Hopefully the dang rear sprocket will come tommorow..Thanks
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Bruce, do you have a link to the jackshaft parts. That fits really nice. Bob
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I got the jackshaft assembly from BMI..I had to cut the center tube out so I could move the drive gear to the inside for my purpose in able to get the drive sprocket aligned with my rear wheel sprocket.. I added two extra bearings after cutting the tube out.. Just bought the extra bearings for the inside from Aces Hardware.
What is nice about it is it just bolts right in the motor and has the motor bolt pattern..It seem pretty stout, and is a pretty easy way to accomplish the task..They sell just the plate without a shaft too..
They sell other I am sure higher quality jackshafts too.. But I am kinda cheap, I always buy cheap and fix my errors later.. But seriously I think in this case it will suffice nicely..
Forgot..I bought the slotted mounting plate from them too.. I could have made one in the mill..But for what it cost..It was not worth it..
Bought it but they are on Amazon too..Thanks
https://www.bmikarts.com/Clutch-Mount-with-Jackshaft_p_1129.html
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Kinda looking ahead to exhaust options..I am considering orfering this and giving it a whirl..The flange bolt pattern is the same as the Honda Engine.. If you look at the above photo..You will see a hole in the front frame plate..That is where the original exhaust ran through..This just might work great..
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Messed around this eve thinking on a flywheel cover..Seen some great ideas here.. But what I am doing will add a little bit of legitimacy and the engine will look a little more period and correct, as they used covers very similar on the originals of course...
I had this old Briggs kick start motor cover and pinion gear cover here.. So I am adapted it to the Honda motor..I think it will look great..I will paint it the same color as the tank tomorrow and then on Monday I will have my buddy that made my tank decals, make a miniature decal for the flywheel cover.. Should look cool..Or to me anyway..Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/zeAsEPM.jpeg)
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Should have the decal Wednesday..
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Rear sprocket came and installed it on the rear Honda hub assembly.....I had to to turn the hub down to fit the 2 inch bore of the sprocket to the Honda hub....But it worked well and the hole pattern lined up fine with the original Honda wheel mounting hole pattern.. I now wait for the dang kickstart assembly to get here..Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/zb1nsu0.jpeg)
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Nothing too interesting today..The grips came..I think they are a good choice for a vintage look..Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/9xpAzgN.jpeg)
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No real mind shattering stuff today. But the air cleaner came today..It is too modern and kinda looks somewhat out of place, but it was cheap enough, and will fill the slot for now.
Really, really hoping my Kick Starter gets here this week..Thanks for following along..
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Looks like it's getting there .
Maybe if you oil the filter it might not stand out so much .
Pete . :)
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I am actually thinking of fabricating a cover for it too..We will see..
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The kickstarter did come today.. Got it most of the way instealed..Still have to mount the little center pinion cover.. And hook the return spring up..I had to make my own shaft and mounting plate.. Looks like it is going to work great..Thanks
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I started it up for the first time last eve..It has way more power than I even expected..Takes off like a rocket..Well maybe that is an exageration,LOL But it has a lot of torque out of the hole and is very snappy..I am guessing the speed at around 30MPH up and down the block.. But that was not using much throttle at all..And not much for RPMs. It was only test. Just wanted to see how it was going to..But it is going to be very nice..I have seen talk that these are not the smoothest running engines..But mine is very smooth throughout all RPMs idle.
I am very happy so far with how it is going to perform..Hopefully going to finish the kick starter assembly today, get the tank and sidecover clear coated over the decals. I have a set of foot boards coming in that should work great..Not pegs..But these had boards..They should look great I think..
Thanks
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You must be doing something right , Bruce . ;)
Pete . :)
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Thanks
Rode it around again this eve for about 45 minutes..Kinda addicting to ride..Too bad Winter is coming soon..
I have the decal for the side cover on and the tank and the cover clear coated..Kick Start from Wayne is all done too...
Next thing is the foot boards..They should arrive this week..Will be nice to have those on..Once those are on, I can do the rear brake pedal and linkage..
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Make a stop so the kick start doesn’t flop so far forward.
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Yes that is in the plan. Otherwise it hits my little pinion cover..I just have not decided where to locate it quite yet...
I did get the ignition wired up today..Not alot I can do till the exhaust and the floor boards get here..I did ride it again today for around ten miles. Everything is still working well mechanically. Thanks
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Put a tailpipe on today..It is ran through the forward original hole, then rearward..No I did not drill those two holes at the rear, they were there when I bought the frame..Not sure for what purpose.. The pipe is for stationary diesel generators.. So time will tell if it will hold up in a mobile environment..
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Rick
I put a rubber stopper under the kicker..It seems that will work good..Thanks
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Nice finish! The Model Y Briggs cover was the touch!
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Yes that cover was a ingenious idea,LOL Seriously it does just look right on there..
The Footboards did arrive today. Have them on..They should suffice. Finishing up the rear brake setup is next...
Not sure what to do on the clutches yet..Leave em open or fab a cover? What do you think? Ideas?
Thanks for following along.
(https://i.imgur.com/yTnJyMq.jpeg)
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This is what I was doing today..Making the rear brake pedal.. I will show a pic when it is mounted up..Should be pretty Kool...Thanks
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Rear pedal and linkage is done..Going to work great I think..If some do not know what the pedal is from..It is a modified Kickstarter of a Old Briggs Washing Machine type motor..Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/9xlutyf.jpeg)
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That pedal looks like it belongs there .
Repurposed for another life of service . ;)
Pete . :)
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Thanks
The sidecover came from the same motor.. I kinda hated to scavenge the Little kick start Briggs.. But it needed some work..I did not want to put the money into it..And selling those local is not that easy around here, and shipping them is a pain..
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Someone suggested I should put a cover on the drive pulley just for a little more Safti added into the Cycle..LOL
Anyway the aluminum plates I ordered arrived today and I have it all done..Looks kinda cool too..Have the tailight, battery and headlight all done too..I will show those pics later..Thanks
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That is really cool. I agree that the flywheel cover looks right at home.
Great Job.
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Thank You
Here is the headlight and taillight..I am pretty much done for now..