Honda GC 190 info

[Eitek1]

I'm on the path to build a simplex and would really like to use the Honda GC series engine. I am entertaining the thought of an electric start because I think my wife is going to end up with this Simplex and I'm going to build a second one in the future. Because of this I want to put an electric start on it.

Plastered all over the internet and Honda's website are things that say that the electric start on the GC models are an option. I have had NO luck finding this elusive engine. I called Honda and they passed me to a regional distributor. I called those folks and they spent about 45 minutes on the phone with me trying to help. (RW Distributors). I thought folks here might be interested in what they told me.

Here's where we landed. Honda did/does indeed make a GC-190 engine with an electric start. The distributor didn't have the capacity to order one. He said they were probably made for a third party manufacturer and would have to be purchased from them if I could figure out who it was. Alternatively he said I could get a standard GC190 and order the parts from the third party manufacturer.

He said there are three GC 190 models with electric start.

GC190 QAE2 -  Here is the parts list for this motor. http://www.partspitstop.com/oemparts/#/l/hen/50947557f8700230ac8cc3a8/gc190a-qea2-parts I agreement with what Rick wrote below the QAE2 was listed as being the standard equipment for the HS520K1 ASA Snowblower. It's 120v AC.

GC190 QAEF - Here is a parts list for this motor. http://www.ereplacementparts.com/honda-gc190a-type-qhafvin-gcaaa10000011496156-small-engine-parts-c-37657_37658_37987_37755.html

GC190 QEA - Here is the parts list for this motor. http://www.kenssportsarcticcatparts.com/oemparts/l/hen/50947552f8700230ac8cc388/gc190a-qea-parts

I looked around and it appears that the flywheel is discontinued on the parts breakdowns for these engines. In addition at least one of these engines uses 120v AC starter. It's weird but it's on a snowblower and I guess that makes sense. Here is the snow blower http://powerequipment.honda.com/snowblowers/models/hs720as.

What I am going to do is look at all of the electric charging/starting kits on Amazon and cross reference the engines they are for and look for ones that have the same part number as the starter listed on those parts sites above. I'm thinking that may indicate the flywheel and associated components may fit as well.

[Ricks]

I don't believe Honda ever built a 12 volt GC electric start.  As you have found, the electric start was 120 volt, for snow blowers.  Not only will you need a flywheel with a starter ring, but also a charging coil and flywheel with charging magnets.  As recently posted by Sonrisers, you can find flywheels and charging coils for GX motors on eBay, but Honda used at least 3 different tapers on the cranks.  What James did was remove the magnets from the new flywheel, and drilled the old flywheel to accept these magnets.  The GC and GS motors do have the mounting bosses for the coils, but they may need to be tapped.

Installing a GC motor is much more complicated than installing a GX motor, so be prepared to overcome many issues, of which there are no bolt on solutions.

[Eitek1]

One of the users of the GC-QEA engine appears to be something made by arctic cat. The part number for the starter is STARTER MOTOR ASSY. 31200-Z0L-821

As part of the assembly it lists a part which is WIRE, TERMINAL GROUND 32222-Z0L-830 that is used to ground the negative side of the starter to the motor itself. This wouldn't be the case with a 120VAC starter. This starter almost has to be for a 12v application. At least that's how it looks.  Here is the link to the parts lists for that motor.

http://www.kenssportsarcticcatparts.com/oemparts/l/hen/50947552f8700230ac8cc388/gc190a-qea-parts

The parts lists don't show any charging coils for the flywheel. A news release that honda put out said they would have a motor that was started via the battery off of a rechargeable tool like a dewalt or something. Maybe this was it?

Also, I realize it's not the easy path. I also fully realize that I'm going to regret this later. Somehow... I can't seem to help myself. 

[Ricks]

Post a link to that news release please.  

That flywheel part number is available, but some of them show a ring gear and some don't.

Interesting stuff. I like good detective work!

[pd]

" Interesting stuff. I like good detective work! "

Me , too .

Pete .

[Eitek1]

Here is a link to the news release.  http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2003102849587

I called Kens artic cat parts and asked what piece of equipment the GC-190 was on but the guy just said lawn mowers or generators or something. I asked if the voltage listed for that starter was 12v. He said it didn't specify.

Something to note though is that the connector for the two starters in the link are very different. One of them looks just like the 120v starters on the snow blowers and the other doesn't at all.

I haven't had time to run the cross reference on the Amazon stuff yet.

Jason

[Ricks]

That news release is dated 12 years ago.  I guess this idea just didn't pan out.

It seems to me that even if available, by the time you buy a starter, flywheel, and charging coils, and add a battery, you have added weight, cost and complexity to the bike.  Why not just use a kick start?  These motors fire up so easily, I would think they would start on the first kick 90% of the time.

Keep up the investigation and please keep us updated on the results.

[Eitek1]

It seems to me that even if available, by the time you buy a starter, flywheel, and charging coils, and add a battery, you have added weight, cost and complexity to the bike.  Why not just use a kick start?  These motors fire up so easily, I would think they would start on the first kick 90% of the time.

I guess I don't have a great answer and you are correct that a kick starter is the obvious answer. My wife will probably end up riding this and I'd like to make it as easy as possible for her to enjoy. In addition, I like solving technical problems and helping folks. Even if I go with a kick start the information on if this is even possible will be available.

As far as a battery goes I was thinking about the newer lithium polymer batteries. I have one the size of an Iphone that will jump start my 4 cylinder car. It's pretty amazing. with something like that, the weight addition would be less. The net gain would be the weight of the starter and coils and should be around 5 or 6 pounds.

The battery looks like this...

[Ricks]

Battery looks small, it should be easy to hide in a saddle tool bag or something similar.  I'm not an electrical guy, but can you charge that off the lighting coil, or will you need to recharge from a 110 source?

Keep going with this, as I did an electric start clone motor on a 3 wheel truck, and it was nice to just push a button to start it.

[Eitek1]

Charges from a USB source. That means it charges with 5VDC. I'd have to step down the voltage but it can be charged from the lighting coil. (Edit) actually all you need to charge it are the guts out of a "cigarette lighter" phone charger. That steps down from 12vdc to 5vcd. I'm not sure how many starts you would get out of it so I'd have to try and figure that out but I think it would be fine.

Eitek1 stands for Electrical and instrument technician #1.
That's what I started my career doing and the name is never "taken" so I still use it  

[Eitek1]

Looks like we MAY have a winner here....

I did a search on the starter using the part number. STARTER MOTOR ASSY. 31200-Z0L-821

It brought me to this page http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/honda/H-31200-Z0L-821.html Down at the bottom it lists all the engines that the starter is compatible with.

At the bottom you'll see HRX217. I did a search on HRX217 and it took me to this page.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honda-21-in-Variable-Speed-Self-Propelled-Electric-Start-Gas-Mower-HRX217HZA/100643623

Look at the second video on the right. (Edit) It shows the use of the electric start and talks about the onboard charging system. Not sure if everything swaps over but it may be promising.

If you look through the parts list it shows a plug in the wall charger for the battery. Looks like onboard charging is still not available as a factory option. The starter still looks like it will work though.