Clinton Engines in Simplex bikes?

[Bob Gurkin]

I was shocked to find out that Simplex used Clinton engines in their bikes. This was during the WW11 war years. Not all bikes but a good number of them. Has anyone ever seen a Simplex bike with a Clinton motor in it?

[trooper82]

Bob, where did you run across the info on Clinton engines in WW2 simplex's?

[Bob Gurkin]

It was on a history of Simplex site. I will see if I can find it again. Those things come and go so fast it is hard to keep up with them. I have been thinking about it and the only way they could have done it was with a slip clutch. It have to have been a kick start and I would love to see how they did that. There is a NOS 2 1/2 hp Clinton on Ebay right now, but that will go out between $350 and $400.

[trooper82]

was this it? cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/simplex.htm

[Bob Gurkin]

No, thats not it Troop and I can't find the damn thing again. I will look some more tomorrow. I knew I should have bookmarked it. It was a standard Simplex bike and for the military was called a motored bicycle. They were making so many bikes they couldn't keep up with production and used Clintons on some of the bikes. I have not found another reference to them and would like to see a picture to see exactly how they were hooked up. Has anyone read Gary Wollard's history of Simplex bikes ? Perhaps there is a mention of it in there.

[trooper82]

Just to throw another log on this fire, have you seen this one? It's a WW2 model G-A-1. Interesting to note is the chain drive to the rear wheel instead of the standard belt. I believe it's in a musuem in the Netherlands but not positive about that. I haven't seen any info other than some pictures so I don't know if this was a factory build, some enterprising G.I. or a post war conversion.

The official Army designation was "G611, Airborne, Bicycle, Motorized". Since there are no pedals I'm not sure why they defined it as a bicycle. Must have been the light weight. 

[Ricks]

I've read Gary's book and I don't recall him writing anything about any engines other than their own.  That would be pretty interesting to see if they used a clinton or other engine.  Bob, do you have a copy of Gary's book?  Were you the one that said Gary is going to print another, follow up book?

[Bob Gurkin]

I don't recall ever seeing a Simplex with a chain drive. No telling what we will flush out of the woodwork here. Rick, when I was talking with Gary he was telling me that the book is complete and at the printers. I was talking with him about another matter and he mentioned it to me. He is taking some pretty agressive chemo at this time and I told him I would call him back in a month or 6 weeks and see how he was feeling at that time.

[Ricks]

Gary says in his book that he has heard many rumors of chain drive, but they have all turned out to be "a later, home adaptation".  He goes on to say that according to plant/production manager Stan McCarthy, Simplex did build 1 test bike with chain drive with a Villiars engine around 1947.  Stan's opinion was it was superior to the simplex powered machine, much faster, at about 55mph, but was deemed unsafe by J. Paul Treen.

[Doodle Bugger]

I realize I'm dredging up an old topic here, but thought I'd mention this regarding Clinton engines.

Clinton Engines didn't start up (in Clinton, Michigan) until 1946. In other words, the war was over.

There were early Clinton engines (700 series engines) put in similar looking machines such as the LaRay, but those were post-war machines as well. The story about running out of engines sounds a lot like what did actually happen with the Doodle Bug scooter...Briggs NP engine supply temporarily dried up so the company went to Clinton engines for a short time. It is said there were less than 1000 ever built with Clintons and that it was probably closer to 750-800.

My guess is that a Clinton in a Simplex was put there no earlier than the late 1940s as a replacement engine or that someone saw a LaRay and incorrectly reported it as a Simplex.