A rider ...

[oil-lamp]

That is going to be a Wayne type question.   

[pd]

Through a bit of research , it seems that Phelon used an FG216(B) condenser in a number of their magnetos . Those were with mostly single plug coils . I found a reference that included Simplex motorbikes and the two plug coil that used the FG216 , but I didn't bookmark it and I can't seem to find it again .   I see , in the Manuals Only / Magnetos section that the '57 and later Phelon magnetos used a Repco FG-2448 condenser . I can not find any reference to any ratings ( or anything else ) on that condenser .

Anyway , the condensers that I removed from the marine stator plate that the coil I'm using came from are stamped FG216B . The FG216 and FG216B both seem to be rated at .15µ - .19µ ( microfarad ) . So , any condenser that has a similar mount with a long enough pig tail and is rated at .15µ - .19µ , or very close to that , will work nicely for the Phelon magnetos in our bikes without adverse effects .

Most of the same type magnetos used a condenser that was / is rated at .14µ - .22µ .That alone would seem to prove the rest of my research is correct .

If anyone has information that would support or conflict the above , Please , let us know . Thanks .

Pete .

[pd]

This afternoon I ran the bike until it quit . It did restart and ran for a very short while , before quitting and not wanting to restart . I immediately pushed the bike into the shop to check things under the flywheel while the motor was hot . I pulled the side and compression plate in order to pull the flywheel . Another stream of fuel spotted the shop floor .

I have the float level set at 1.5" . I'm not sure , but that should keep the fuel level at or below the bottom of the carb throat . Maybe I have to bring the main needle in some more , but it seems not want to run then .
My float needle has a metal tip . I'm going to see if I can find a needle with a rubber tip . At this point , I don't know if that will make any difference .

In the magneto , the coils where not at all hot or even warm . More toward the stone cold side . The points looked clean , without any transfer deposits on either point . That means that the condenser I have in there has the correct µ rating . Whether the condenser functions after it works for a while is the question . From my past experiences , condensers are either good or not . Not : good , then not good , then good again . But , I suppose anything is possible .

[Mike Sal]

Personally, I think it's disgusting that you can even tinker with the bike.....we got 6 inches of snow yesterday (they had a foot to the north & west of us).......

Were you able to check for spark when the bike quit?  It's not uncommon for a condensor to fail when it warms up, then go good again when it cools down.  When it died, was it sudden (like turning off the key), or did it loose power or burble like it was flooding out?
Mike Sal

[pd]

"Personally, I think it's disgusting that you can even tinker with the bike.....we got 6 inches of snow yesterday (they had a foot to the north & west of us)....... "

 You'll be able to do the same thing , when you decide to retire in a warmer climate .

How it quit ... I'd say it was closer to sudden , as it blew back through the carb on it's last 'breath' . It's happened like that almost every time .

I did not check for 'post' spark today . I have a couple of times prior and always had spark then .

It's a bit puzzling why I get a fuel spot on the floor the last few times I've removed the side plates . I checked the float needle for any defects and found none and the seat also looked good .

[Ricks]

Pete, a couple of things to check.  First, make sure the cylinder is snug to the case.  I have experienced the bolts loosening slightly and causing a leak. Second, pull the float and check for a crack.  Before putting the float back in, set the inlet needle by pushing it in firmly with a pencil eraser.  I read this somewhere, and it cured my leaking needle.  I had changed my needle and seat twice, and this worked! Set the float to 1 15/32" This lowers the fuel in the bowl slightly and I have seen no adverse effect.


Read this article written by Gary Wollard, and see if you think this applies to your situation.

[pd]

Rick ,

The jug is tight to the case . I checked that yesterday .
 I'm not really satisfied that the side covers are staying tight enough . When I remove the screws , they are only finger tight . I torque them as tight as possible without slipping the screwdriver out of the slots at installation .

I already have the float set at 1 16/32" . I'll have to try the pencil eraser .
I have not seen any fuel moisture on the fender , lately . I did at first when I wasn't able to get the motor to run . It would fire occasionally and blow back through the carb . That was likely due to the settings being way too rich .

It would be nice to know the sleeving procedure that Gary used for the crank and port .

Is that article from a publication that Gary produced ?

[Ricks]

It would be nice to know the sleeving procedure that Gary used for the crank and port .

Is that article from a publication that Gary produced ?

That was from a magazine that Gary published for a few issues.  He created "The New Servi-Cycling Magazine"  in the 1990's and published at least 5 issues that I know of.  It was modeled after Simplex's own "Servi-Cycling" magazine from the 1940's.


KartJockey sleeved his 48, maybe he can chime in.

[kartjockey]

my engine has the separate rotary valve.  Some where early on in its life the air breather hose broke and it ingested enough Dust off of the Mississippi backroads to grind therotary valve down and the bore in the block outward.  I had to sleeve the block down and the valve up. Since it was the original block I was pretty nervous until it was done. I had to 'rough' in the bore of the block sleeve plus it had clip grooves and so forth to deal with.  Once installed ifinished honed it to size with a rigid Sunen cylinder hone.  Critical dimensions to be able to hold press fit of the tapered roller bearings races.  The valve was a bit easier but still a delicate little procedure when you don't have a spare laying in front of you. So I have a measured running clearance of .002" per side on the valve(.004" difference in the diameters).  Take a look at the exploded view in the 1948 manual to see what I was up against.  Seems to me an M block could experience the same problem. I'd have to lokk at one to see what to do. 

[pd]

That early valve is a lot different than the M models .

What are the rotary valve clearance limits for the M model ?
I don't recall seeing anything pertaining to that in the manuals .

On another note : I reinstalled the original condenser that was in the bike when I bought it . That's a 48 year old condenser and likely OEM , which would make it 55 + years old . Amazingly , the bike now has a much more robust spark , at least while cold . I have not gotten it hot with the old condenser , yet .

[pd]

I took the Simplex for a ride with the old condenser . It ran about the same and crapped out at about the same distance as before . I probably should have switched coils while I had it apart , but the only way to know for sure what is wrong is to 'test' one thing at a time . So , tomorrow , it'll come apart , again .

[mike montgomery]

Hi Folks, I happen to know that Larry Brown (on this list) has experience with resleeving for the rotary valve.  I think that he can also do it for you for a reasonable price.  Good luck, Mike

[pd]

Thanks for that , Mike .

[oil-lamp]

I hope you have something to put it up on to work on it. I hate having to tinker with mine while she sits on the ground. I had to build a low table so I can sit in a chair. 

[pd]

I wish I had a table for it , too , Reese . Cold cement is no good for my knees . I do use a chair once in a while , but I find it gets done quicker if I just make work of it . If it were my own shop ...

Today , I installed my other ignition coil . The bike ran about the same , with maybe a bit more missing , for about the same distance . I'll have to run it more to be sure about the missing .

I also loosened the side plates and wonders of wonders out came more fuel .
I have the main fuel screw set at just over half a turn out and the idle screw at about one turn out . The manual recommends starting at one turn out on both screws .
The float is set 3/32" deeper in the bowl than the manual states .
The meter tube has two less holes than the OEM eight holes . I have a meter tube with only four holes that I'll try .
 I running out of things to try .