Author Topic: Fuel and oil  (Read 3757 times)

kjwiley

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Fuel and oil
« on: February 13, 2013, 04:42:02 PM »
Has anyone run Coleman fuel?  "Also known as white gas." I have been using it in low compression race engines for years... Beside the fact that it has little to no smell when transporting from show to show. I do not see an advantage in a Simplex being the carburetor doesn't have any diaphragms. All pump gas today has additives that destroy accelerator pumps after time. This might be a great option for those of you who travel with your bikes in a van, motor home or enclosed trailer.

Ken

Mike Sal

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2013, 04:54:35 PM »
What oil ratio do you run?  I would think the white gas wouldn't have enough lubricity.  The simplex has a tendancy to run hot (Rick can probably comment about the subject).  Last summer Jim L was running around with a digital temperature gun, measuring head temps after running around the fairgrounds. 
Mike Sal

kjwiley

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2013, 05:17:48 PM »
 Good Question? You are right about running hot. White gas has a tendency to run hotter due to the flash rate/ lower octane. This is why I raise the question? I can test it and take some cylinder head readings. I run Amsoil 40:1.

Ken

kjwiley

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2013, 05:19:58 PM »
The oil is not a factor. It is the heat!!

Ken

Mike Sal

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2013, 07:30:22 PM »
A lot of Simplex old timers swear you need lots of oil, like 16:1.  Personally, I've run 40:1 in every 2 stroke I ever owned & had good results.  I think I will run my Simplex a little on the heavy side, but maybe not all the way to 16.
Mike Sal

Ricks

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2013, 08:00:38 PM »
I'm running 50:1, synthetic 2 stroke oil.  I ran 32:1 for the first tank, but I think it runs better at 50:1.
Rick

kjwiley

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2013, 08:28:39 PM »
I here you. With today's synthetic oils you can run them 100:1 ratio. (I would not recommend) The key is if it is a new rebuilt motor to break it in with regular two-cycle oil not synthetic, After the motor has heated and cooled and ring has seated you can switch to synthetic if you desire. Every motor has it's performance heights determined by the un-burned oil and compression. You can gain compression in single ring motors by adding more oil. Although un- burned oil creates heat and carbon build up. This is all determined by the design of the engine. I have spent the last several years testing oils and fuel alternatives, I run my small two-cycle race engines at 16:1 Synthetic ratio with Colemen fuel. I have accomplished almost 6-1/2 horsepower out of a 26cc engine. This doesn't mean it will work in  your Simplex or two-stroke bikes. It took me hours of testing, plug readings, RPM and maximum speed and reliability to convince me of a higher oil count. Although with Colemen fuel it is hard to get a good  plug reading it works great in my application. I guess I will have to do some experimenting with the Simplex engine.

Ken

kjwiley

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 08:34:31 PM »
I have to agree with Rick. I am running my Simplex right now at a 40:1 ratio on pump gas.

Ken

Mike Sal

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2013, 08:00:30 PM »
Ken,
Sounds like a great read on your research.  Have you ever documented your experiments I'd love to see the data.  Mike M said that Wollard had some documentation on tweaking Simplex motors....it would be interesting to see how the data compares.
Mike Sal

kjwiley

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 10:06:03 AM »
Mike, I sent you a PM..

Ken

Bruce

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 05:05:39 PM »
Newer lubricants are impressive.... Still,with a hard to replace vintage engine I wouldn't go past 32:1.       Isn't worth the risk

Doodle Bugger

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Re: Fuel and oil
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 11:48:06 AM »
Around here Coleman fuel is a touch over $20/gallon.

It is low octane (50-55) and has no traditional gasoline additives (which is the main reason people use it), but is apparently very hard on the valves when used as a motor fuel. I've seen that engines tend to run pretty hot using Coleman fuel. Mind you I'm talking about 4-cycle scooter engines (not model engines and not Simplex engines, but still...). I wouldn't use it, personally, as I think there are better options for similar money. Those that really think running Coleman fuel sounds good can probably buy non-Coleman branded naphtha for half the price through a paint store or similar.

I think one of the big problems is ethanol.

Modern gasoline blends, most of which contain ethanol, are garbage. The stuff has virtually no shelf life and is very hard on gaskets, seals, fuel lines, and the like. The ethanol blended gasoline of today is also hygroscopic, meaning they will absorb moisture from the air and you'll end up with water in the gas tank eventually. In a car that is driven all the time and was engineered to use this kind of fuel, it's no big deal. In an antique, this stuff causes lots of headaches.

The only way to defeat modern fuel is to not let it sit. Run it ALL out of the system and drain out any used fuel when you're finished. It's still hard on your machine as you're using it, but at least you will minimize the risk of the fuel breaking down and gumming things up.

I think that the best thing to do is search for non-ethanol gas, race gas, or AV gas. Race gas (from a drag strip, for instance) isn't cheap, but it's designed for use in gasoline engines and is ethanol free. AV gas (either blue or no-color grades) is probably the best thing, but it's hard to get unless you have a small scale airport near you that's willing to fill up cans for you. Often times they want a tail number to associate with the purchase. Since I don't have a plane, that's kind hard...

Look here:

http://pure-gas.org/