Author Topic: Wheel Brainstorming Idea  (Read 21016 times)

ndian22

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2016, 10:42:04 AM »
I totally agree with a vintage tread pattern, if the tire is up to spec for use on the Simplex then the tread pattern shouldn't clash with the authenticity/ integrity of the restoration. I've grown accustomed to the "flame" tread & use it on three of my moto bikes. It actually corners well & runs well when wet. Of course I'm not restoring...whole different deal, but I'd select the vintage tread over the flame if all other specs were the same.  Rick C.

Eitek1

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2016, 06:00:32 AM »
I think I'll be chatting with the owner in the next few weeks. He invited me to come by his shop. He said he has "some interesting things" to look at.

The way we got on the subject of Simplex's was kind of funny. I called and asked if they sold worksman wheels. I was going to buy local if I could. I told the guy I was talking to "I want them for a simplex". The guy said "simplex, huh". I then heard a voice that said "let me talk to that guy".

I'll let you guys know what I find out when I visit his shop and chat with him. I think he might be the only person selling this particular tire. He makes them in runs of 500 or so. It's not a continuous batch so there may be a chance to get a tread change, but that's just my opinion.

Ricks

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2016, 06:13:56 AM »
I think I'll be chatting with the owner in the next few weeks. He invited me to come by his shop. He said he has "some interesting things" to look at.

The way we got on the subject of Simplex's was kind of funny. I called and asked if they sold worksman wheels. I was going to buy local if I could. I told the guy I was talking to "I want them for a simplex". The guy said "simplex, huh". I then heard a voice that said "let me talk to that guy".

I'll let you guys know what I find out when I visit his shop and chat with him. I think he might be the only person selling this particular tire. He makes them in runs of 500 or so. It's not a continuous batch so there may be a chance to get a tread change, but that's just my opinion.

Well, get on it!  Lol
Rick

ndian22

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2016, 06:51:44 AM »
I plan on calling him as well & pump a bit of air up his skirts. He is sitting on the edge of a nice market. Quality vintage pattern tires in 2.5" to 3" width for 26" clincher wheels & at price points below Coker is a no brainer. Rick C.

Eitek1

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2016, 10:07:23 AM »

Now I'm thinking about taking off early and riding over there. You guys are a bad influence.

Damn Bikers....  ;D

Eitek1

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2016, 03:01:12 PM »
So I rode over there and talked to him. He is a very nice guy and has been around motorcycles in one way or another his whole life.

I told him about the market for the tires was there with a period correct pattern. He said he had considered it but the cost to create a mold with the vintage pattern was an additional expense. He said he was feeling the market out but was moving slowly. He said he kind of fell backward into this so I understand his timing.  


He said he'd like to get his hands on an original simplex tire to make the mold off of if he was going to make the treads ribbed. I asked "why not get a coker". He said he didn't believe they were period correct. If anyone has an old simplex tire laying around they'd like to give up for the cause, it might be worth it.

I asked about the DOT rating and the answer was basically, the current market I'm servicing doesn't require it, it's an added expense that wouldn't benefit me at this point. Hard to argue with that. That being said, I think the tire would pass whatever qualifications were needed to get DOT approved. He said in pedicab service they were lasting 500% longer than the Maxxis Hookworm. The tires are legitimate. He also developed a stronger tube to run in the tires. It's got a really thick outer circumference and a thinner inner circumference. He said they hold up well under New Orleans streets.

He has the same tire in a 2.125 size if anyone is interested.Oh yea, he said he was considering doing the same tire in a 3.0 inch as well. We talked for about an hour and I'm sure there's something I've left out.

Jason
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 03:03:32 PM by Eitek1 »

Ricks

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2016, 03:25:00 PM »
Great job Jason.

The Coker Simplex 26 x 2.5 Tire is an EXACT reproduction of an original.  If I had an old original anymore, I would donate it to the cause.  Anyone have one laying around?
Rick

Eitek1

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2016, 04:45:32 PM »
Rick,

I just read the Code of Federal regulations around tire testing for motorcycles. I'm new to this and was wondering, what's the impetus for the DOT stamp? The code was approved in 1975 I think so I'm not sure if vehicles made before that would even be subject to the requirement.

If the requirement does exist it still doesn't look like a big deal to get one certified. In my day job I've participated in stress and failure testing of equipment so I've been down this path. I'm going to call a qualified lab on Monday and see if I can nail down exactly what it will take. Maybe we can usher this along a bit...

Ricks

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2016, 04:55:46 PM »
Rick,

I just read the Code of Federal regulations around tire testing for motorcycles. I'm new to this and was wondering, what's the impetus for the DOT stamp? The code was approved in 1975 I think so I'm not sure if vehicles made before that would even be subject to the requirement.

If the requirement does exist it still doesn't look like a big deal to get one certified. In my day job I've participated in stress and failure testing of equipment so I've been down this path. I'm going to call a qualified lab on Monday and see if I can nail down exactly what it will take. Maybe we can usher this along a bit...

I haven't the slightest idea.  Sorry.
Rick

ndian22

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2016, 06:37:25 PM »
My Simplex rims have tires mounted ...they are ribbed & weather cracked. At any rate sounds like it's worth following up on & I'd be glad to ship to him. My frame is a 1957 #166688 if memory serves & I recall the tires are marked 26" x 2.5" I just remembered that I'd brought the fork and wheel to my house and I just checked & that tire is marked Servi-cycle so I do have an original for the cause! So we're in business on two fronts since Rick S. is confident of the Coker being an exact replica.

The Vee tire is made in Thailand & if you look at the Vee brand cycle tires that Nola has listed on Ebay in his store he lists them & their speed as well as load rating. It probably is extra but it's obviously something that the plant in Thailand is quite capable of providing.

Jason I'm with you on the Biker comment...bad influence indeed.Rick C.

Ricks

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2016, 07:04:55 PM »
The reproduction tires are marked Simplex, and if the tire is not completely worn out, also says Servi-Cycle all around the center tread of tire.
Rick

Eitek1

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2016, 08:48:49 PM »
ndian22 if you have the tire and its unserviceable for normal use I think it might well serve another purpose. If you're willing to send it I promise you I'll make it up to you. If you decide to do it let me know and you can send it to him directly or me and I can get it to him. I would have to imagine you wouldn't see it again though. I think it would get sent to Thailand for mold validation.

I believed that the Coker was an exact replica and Ricks validation proves it.
Unfortunately, I don't count. I believe our enterprising tire baron needs to see it for himself. Personally I don't blame him. I need to see stuff for myself as well. I would imagine a tire mold is something you want perfect upfront.

As far as getting it DOT certified, according to the federal regs you have to test exactly 1 tire to validate performance. Even then the test looks like it will only take a day or so with probably another day of admin work for the test lab. I'm sure the engineers will charge a pretty penny for it though. the hardest part of the DOT qualification actually appeared to be listing all of the "factory" wheels that the tire would fit. You have to list what all acceptable rims for the tire to perform at spec.

About the dated regulation comment, if memory serves me right, anything made before 1962 or something isn't required to have seat belts. Since the DOT reg didn't exist before them they are probably exempt.

ndian22

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2016, 06:00:33 AM »
Jason I will check the tires in the light of day and get back to you. Glad to send what I have & don't expect to see them again...no problem, though getting them off the rims in one piece may be an adventure. The Simplex I have was literally in the barn for over 30 years & the tires are very dry & brittle.

Speed rating testing is pretty standardized mount a tire (at recommended pressure) to appropriate rim & load the rim and tire to duplicate the load weight And spin the whole assembly against a rotating tube. Starting at slow speeds (kilometers then converted to mph) for 10 minutes then speed is increased by 6 + mph & repeated at 10 minute intervals and 6 + mph until tire integrity is validated. In metric then converted for this market to MPH (that's why the mph ratings in the U.S. end up odd). In Germany & on the autobahn really important as it is to racers any where. I like the feeling of security it brings drive 70 but rated for 130 makes me feel warm and fuzzy kinda.

Reason I'm posting this is not to cause an argument, which takes two & I'm not playing. Just want to clarify my thoughts on the tire safety issue (authentic reproduction is not at issue in this, it's a specific topic unto itself) safety under load and at reasonable cruising speed on the highway.

I checked the Coker site and the tire specs they list & I brought this away from the information they supply (minimal) The Coker tire is an authentic replica molding (complete down to center rib markings on the tread pattern) They do not publish a speed or load rating for the tire on their site. Load rating stated as... NO, which I take to mean unknown. The Coker tire isn't directional which being vintage pattern is understandable.
No DOT rating for either load weight or speed, but authentic, clincher, heavy duty bias ply tire & well thought of by those who own them. Pricing on ebay seemed to vary greatly but $130. ish shipped was available from dealers. I know I've read opinion as to speed ratings of up to 90 mph but not from the Coker site. Overall I'd say it's the only authentic tire out there so it's a bargain.

Directional tires like are used on modern motorcycles have definite benefits better wet traction, cornering and fuel mileage being among them. Tire life though is shorter given the exact same material compounds. I don't see any way that an authentic repro tire can be truly directional and authentic. My opinion.

The Vee brand in the 2.5" width is a bit over $50. shipped (my last order) It is rated by the distributor as directional, with 750 lb. load rating and kevlar belted. It is not however a vintage tread design. It seems both tires are viable options depending on whats important for the individual build at this time, but I'd really like to see Coker step up with at least a tire load rating for the Simplex. I do think that 50 mph cruising on the Coker or Vee brand would be safe. The Manufacturers speed rating is invalidated if the tire is punctured and repaired. So if you have a flat don't ever drive over 55 from then on in your Ferrari, lol.

ndian22

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2016, 06:31:15 AM »
Photos of the original tread pattern & tire.  Rick C.

Ricks

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Re: Wheel Brainstorming Idea
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2016, 09:16:09 AM »
Rick, those wheels look pretty decent.  Are they straight?  If you are thinking of selling, please let me know.


As far as I can recall, the Coker tires do not have any DOT stamp on them.  I wonder what the liability would be on a street registered bike accident without a  DOT approved tire?  Personally, I didn't even consider it, and thinking about it, I don't even care. Lol
Rick