A rider ...

[pd]

I thought about that , Rick .

I figure if the JB doesn't hold , most , if not all , will blow out the exhaust pipe .
The cylinder seems useless without a fix and the JB will at least prove me right or wrong .

The piston has seized so many times , it should be replaced simply out of principle . So that wouldn't be a huge loss . I might do that anyway , if the JB does what I think it will .

To be honest , I'm obviously willing to try just about anything to get this motor to run decent . I've tried what seems to be everything else , so ...

And , thanks for the good luck .

Pete .

[carryall]

   Years ago I tried using JB on a little .25cal. handgun slide to build up a front sight blade.  Couple shots and it disappeared/fell off, even after notching and grinding for a "grip" to the parent metal.  (I ended up using silver solder instead)   Good luck tho!

[pd]

Thanks , Paul .

I'm not a fan of using JB where it has to contain fuel , but something like an exhaust port should work , hopefully .

Pete .

[carryall]

Could you build up the piston using a TIG welder perhaps?

[pd]

I thought about that , too and I'd think that's possible . Lengthen the skirt a bit . It would have to clear the crank counter weight and hopefully not be heavy enough to over weigh the intake side .

That might have to be my next step , if the JB doesn't perform well .

Pete .

[pd]

Motor is back together . So far , no joy . It seems to run pretty close to the same as it did prior to this latest 'adjustment' .

I installed the MT48 carb I had on before the Carpenter carb . The motor does seem to run better , but still not 'kickable start' better .

So , the hunt continues ... I'm not sure just which bush to shake next .

Pete .

[carryall]

Anything "shoot out" the exhaust pipe? (i.e the JB weld hold up)

[pd]

Nothing that I noticed . And I heard no 'strange' noises either .

I let the motor cool completely between run times and nothing unusual , so far .
Next time I pull the exhaust and or cylinder , I'll definitely inspect the JB Weld .

Pete .

[pd]

Unless someone can offer a bit of magic , I'm pretty much out of time for tinkering with the '57 for a while .

We plan to be Southward bound by this time next weekend . That means packing tools and such . Loading the trailer , after I install new wheels which are patiently waiting . I went up a size and a load rating on the new tires to see if maybe I could get a few more miles before the next replacement .
Anyway , A bunch of things will be happening in the next week to accomplish our goal . Cold weather is on the way and we don't like cold too much anymore .

Pete .

[pd]

Here's a less than complete list of  what I've done to my '57 Simplex motor :

New ignition coil .

Replaced the points and condenser .

Rewound the headlight coil , successfully .

Indexed the spark plug . Not sure it helped . Maybe if the motor ever gets to running right .

Trued carb mating surfaces .

Eliminated the holes in the intake passage ( Throat ) using JB Weld .

Tapered the intake throat from carb mount to the crank port . It's now cone shaped instead of stepped and roughly bored .

New Carpenter Carb . Could not get it to function 'nicely'.
Reinstalled my MT48 carb , which seems to allow the motor to run more mormally .

Had Wayne bore the cylinder to 1st over , which siezed after less than 15 minutes run time . And , siezed a number of times after the piston and bore had been 'cleaned' .

Pinned the piston rings . No more ring drift with ring ends traversing any ports .

New connecting rod and lower bearing .

New crank seal , 1st was stock size . 2nd is 29 mm ID ( much better sealing ).

New Nachi sealed bearings installed on the crank .

Crank to case intake clearance lowered by at least 2 thousandths by applying JB Weld to the inside case 'wall'.

Extended the exhaust mainfold mating surface with JB Weld and trued it and the exhaust port mating surface .

Trued case and cylinder base gasket surfaces .

Trued case compression plate mating surface .

Numerous new gaskets , all around .

Leveled the tops of the exhaust ports because they were factory drilled uneven .
Raised the bottoms of the exhaust ports with JB Weld to compensate for too low of port opening , which allowed the bottom end to open on every stroke .

Come to think of it , maybe not even magic would help . But , I'm willing to give it a shot .

Pete .

[Ricks]

Pete, by any chance did you replace the cam for the points?  I know the Wico and Phelon used different ones.  Any chance you have the incorrect one? 

Piston seizing is obviously caused by either lack of lubrication or too high running temperature.  If the timing is off, this could cause high running temps as well as hard starting.

Just thinking out loud!

[pd]

Rick , Thanks for the thoughts .

As far as I know , the cam that's in there is the original . I can't be sure that a PO didn't switch it , but , it's the same one that was in there when I bought the bike 52 years ago .

The piston skirt has always been well lubricated , every time I've removed the cylinder / piston . And , every time there has been fuel running out the compression side as soon as the plate is loosened . A bit less recently , but still .
The motor would kick start after I put it together a few years ago . And , it kick started when I installed the new piston and bore from Wayne . Maybe it's time for another piston with a bit less skirt clearance .
Currently , the motor has about 85 pounds compression and about .008" skirt clearance . IIRC , the factory piston clearance was .004" .

I'll have to remember to check exactly when the motor fires . Something I haven't done , yet . I just taken for granted that the cam is correct .

Pete .

[pd]

Rick ,

I'm wondering if there is a difference between the Phelon points cam and the Wico points cam .

Would you or any other member happen to have pics of both for comparison ? Maybe one member with a Phelon cam and another with with a Wico cam ? Please post pics of both , if at all possible . That would definitely add to the knowledge base of the site .

Looking at different pics of either system , the cam lobe position seems to be very close , if not identical
, in both systems . True , the points are positioned opposite in each system , but the cam rider ( or tang ) on both points looks like it might hit the high point of the cam at the same point in crank rotation .

I just can't imagine that there would be a difference , without a difference elsewhere in the motor . And , I wouldn't think that the factory would redesign the motor when they switched ignition systems . Maybe I'm over thinking this , but ...

Pete .

[Ricks]

Pete, here is a picture of a Wico cam.  I positioned the high point at 12:00, so we can see the index of the key tang, which is 7:15 or so.  I do not have a Phelon available to take a picture. If someone does, please take the photo in the same orientation.

Simplex list a different part number for each. Wico is 1245, Phelon 2462.

[pd]

Here is the point cam I just removed from my motor with a Phelon magneto :



And , a shot of the Phelon part # F2529 with a directional arrow 
:

The Wico and Phelon cams are definitely different . Obviously to accommodate the different placing of the points .

Documents on this page verify that I have the correct cam : http://www.simplexservi-cycle.com/index.php?topic=446.0  .

Pete .